Mary,

I have had the F18 class scales in my garage for a couple of years. They are really high tech compared to the bath room scale. The wife likes it when before a regatta I say lets see what we weigh and we get on the Class scales. I think it cost 7.00 to non class members to get there boats weighed. I hope it is warmer this year.

I would think EVERYBODY would want their boats weighed, just out of curiosity. It never occurred to me that you guys would make your scales available to do that. It also sounds like a good way to make some extra money for your class. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If I were you, I would make it a flat $10 for the weighing, because it makes it a whole lot easier to make change.

Wow!! you guys are out of control. This certainly is an entertaining forum.

I dont apprieciate being miss quoted Wouter. How are you supposed to have any credibility when you cant get that right. You know what im talking about. I assure you that Carbon masts are one expensive item where im from. They are cool tho. But is that what you guys want? Cause thats where it will end up.

I look at the limited pictures available of the viper and i like what i see. The only way that i would be interested in getting into the class is if i could buy a boat from a reputable builder like AHPC, hobie, nacra, cirrus...and know that my boat isn't going to be made obselete by the next super boat that cost twice the price.

Until last night i thought that the spitfire was a F16. Its a damn shame that its not cause it looks like a very cool little boat with some cool people behind it.

Sue

You are not interested in getting into the class.

Mary- you should be able to look up the IP address for any of the forum users. That would out anybody who is trying to be their own devils advocate. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Do you seriously think that i would be reading your forum if i wasn't???? Give me a break.

Its obvious that you guys are not open to change or newcomers. You'll just have to get used to sailing "worlds" with the same 10 boats or less.

I have already done that.

My Blade will be going on the scales at Spring Fever. I am curious what the very first VWM Blade weighs.

Cheers,
Neville

Sue,
We have a set of Class Rules for the F16.
If they suit you then you are welcome.
If they do not suit you I would respectfully suggest that you look elsewhere.

Regards,
Phill

Right. And you know a worlds would not happen with 10 boats and it would not happen unless the class already was eligible for recognized or international status.

So give it up.

There is two reason why I read the F16 forum, and its not because I have an F16, or am really interested at this point in getting one.

1. as of late it has been entertaining as hell.
2. You think the F16 is a small class? My class of boat is barely sailed. Right now we're hardly a blip on the radar screen. The successes of the F16 class have given me insight to things that I think could be applied to my boat/class. Things that will make it more appealing with just some simple rule changes that don't actually change anything about the boat.

You are incorrect with that assumption.

I suggest you read the rules.

A mast weight must be attained by suspending the tip on a horozontal plane. You could build a mast with carbon but you would be throwing your money away because you would have to overbuild or add weight to the mast for it to be legal.

Also, the F16 is intended to be a modern performance cat. Someone that sails a dated boat will have a very difficult time being competitive because of the many improvements.

This is the same as trying to make a Hobie 18 fit within the F18 class. Yes, it can be done on a budget but your boat will not compete with the modern boats. You also do not see the F18 class changing the rules to make older designs competitive with the modern boats.

We are what we are and you should embrace it because of the performance.

The price of a new F16 is very reasonable and 1/2 the cost of a new A Class.

Neville, your boat is not the very first built boat. There was another blade built before yours. It was the prototype, blade 703 I believe, currently owned and sailed by Tback (forum name) In any case yours is the first "production" built blade. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Interesting comments
1) "Carbon masts are one expensive item where im from." I find it very interesting that John, the builder of the Stealth, removes some of the mystique involved with carbon and offers them at a very modest upcharge, unlike other manufacturers.

2) "if i could buy a boat from a reputable builder" And this implies the current F16 builders are un-reputable?

Regarding having boats at minimum weight. My observations are that in the upper 5% of ANY class advantages are gained by whatever means possible and perception plays a big part of that advantage over competitors. Some believe (or have convinced themselves) small percentage differences may encumber their chance of consistently winning and they'll play every possible option out, to the hilt, so to leave no doubt in their competitors mind.

Actually, I think you need to read the rules.... The tip weight as it currently stands is unachievable with an alloy mast so there is a clear weight advantage with a carbon mast. Oh, there is the small advantage of a stiffer mast with carbon... but I won't get too technical here.



A new A class is built to take advantage of the class rules, hence the cost. NO current F16 is built to take advantage of the rules. If somebody actually did it the boat would cost as much as an A class.

F16 needs to answer a fundamental question:-

Do you want to be like an A class with kites? The current rules are written to allow exactly that. Sure costs are good now but the rules allow a lot more than what is currently being offered to the market.

Somebody mentioned that some builders have to add weight to F18's to get them up to weight. Thats correct. And I dont think you wil find a current F18 manufacturer or sailor that wishes the weight was less (Say 160kg). It would be cheaper to build them (very slightly) and the boats would be easier to handle on shore. But the class is so big now that to make the change would destroy the fantastic success it is enjoying.

What I am saying is that F16 has the chance now to make changes that will ensure it has a bright future.

Andrew,

You have made your point.

You are free to move on.

Regards,
Phill

Andrew? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> but I thought his name was Sue. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Free to stay too.

while we are both here, maybe you can answer a question:-

As a designer, do you believe that carrying 5kg extra weight has any negative effect of the performance of an F16?

This has been done to death.
Move on.

i'll take that as a YES then?