What characteristics make a beach cat design a good one for open ocean sailing?

What models have proven to be durable and capable of handling conditions found in unprotected coastal waters?

Thanks,
George VS

A couple of items quickly come to mind:

- Pop up rudders (~center boards too~)
- roller furling jib
- overall length...i.e. a 20' cat is more stable in short steep waves than a 16' cat.

You're going to get a lot of 'my baot is better than your boat' before long but the Nacra 6.0 has a reputation of being a very solid beach boat. The Hobie 16 does too largely because it doesn't have centerboards to deal with when beaching. It's a bit small for my tastes though.

A good place to start is with boats that have successfully competed in the Worrell 1000. From its beginnings on Hobie 16's through the 2002 Inter 20's you can get a sense of how a number of popular beach cats (and crews) have met the task of open ocean sailing.

Hi George,

As I see it there is a lot of difference between unprotected coastal waters and open ocean.

Presumeably unprotected coastal waters are the waters off beaches that aren't in bays and the waters off beaches on the coast that don't have islands or offshore reefs protecting them.

I would think that any beach cat is ok in unprotected coastal waters as long as you pick the day to suit your skill and the boat that you are sailing. You need to be a skillful sailor to take any beach cat out in over 30knots and you can expect to have gear failure if you do it often enough.

Sailing in the open ocean, presumably many miles off shore, seems not to be a very sensible thing to do on any beach cat. There are instances of people sailing beach cats across oceans but these are rare and in the realm of major risk taking.

Best Regards,

Rob.

N6.0 would be hard to beat for open-ocean sailing where you have to launch through surf. I20's are getting cheap, also and the H16 is great at taking abuse, and more manageable if you weigh less than 320. At the lower end of the weight spectrum, my old N5.2 was o.k. once you got out there, but it didn't have enough power to get through the surf if there wasn't big wind.
Have fun,
Michael Coffman
T4.9#32

Rob (Berthos) is right, and I would like to add a couple things.

1. When you are sailing in unprotected coastal ocean waters, the biggest problem is not the "open ocean" part. It is getting out through the surf and getting back to the beach. The surf zone is where you find the most potential danger and damage. So you need a boat designed for surf and shaped to slide up onto the sand without the bows digging into it and rugged enough to handle the abuse of running up onto beaches. Once you get past the surf, the ocean surface itself usually has relatively flat water, with long swells, except where you have a current or tide opposing the wind, as in the Gulf Stream or at the mouths of rivers or inlets or off the tips of capes.

2. When sailing off an unprotected coast, it is generally safest to do it with an onshore wind so that if you have a problem, you will wash back to shore rather than getting blown out to sea. However, an onshore wind usually means bigger surf.

3. If you were thinking in terms of the Northern Coast of the United States along the Great Lakes, like where you are in Michigan, that is a whole different scenario. Offshore coastal sailing on the Great Lakes in a breeze often requires you to contend with a steep, vicious chop that can beat a boat to death, and you don't have the sloping sand beaches you find along the Atlantic coast. A boat that is bigger, longer, heavier -- to punch through the chop -- is usually better. I know nothing about the Pacific coast, but it doesn't sound like that is where you plan to be sailing.

4. And then there are places like the Florida Keys, where you can sail offshore in the Atlantic and not have to contend with surf at all because of the underwater reefs that parallel the shoreline.

So the kind of boat that works best really depends on what coastline you are on.

Mary said:

"Offshore coastal sailing on the Great Lakes in a breeze often requires you to contend with a steep, vicious chop that can beat a boat to death, and you don't have the sloping sand beaches you find along the Atlantic coast. A boat that is bigger, longer, heavier -- to punch through the chop -- is usually better."

Anothger adequate feature for vicious chops is a wave piercing bow. I agree that a bigger boat is more comfortable - the bigger, the better, but then you need a BIG cruising cat with amas at least 3 ft high for true offshore sailing.

Spare energy (yours) is important. This makes ease of handling very important, so good engineering is required.

The best available engineering (in my opinion) is Bill Robert's ARC line. If I had to sail offshore in a small cat I would choose either the ARC 21 ot the 22.

Best regards,

Hello Luiz-

Given I own 2 Roberts designs I would agree about the wave piercing technology but I would rather be on my FMS SC20 in a "Breeze" with its roller furling jib. If its over 20mph; Aquarius builder Haberman states that "reducing sail" is necessary for safety. I have not sailed a ARC21 so I don't know about that boat. I believe that the SC20 is the best of the Roberts designs I have sailed. It will take anything thats thrown at it the best of any cats I have sailed in the last 35 years. I have sailed the following beachcats: Shark, Hobie 14, 16, 18, & 20, Alpha 18, Tornado, Sol Cat 18, Dart 18, G Cat 16, Nacra 5.2 & 6.0, etc. A friend has an I20 but he has had both rudders and one mast break. So you see I haven't sailed every beachcat out there.

thommerrill
F25c 009 Charisma
ARC22 2234 Widowmaker
FMS SC20 57

I have a Supercat-20 and although biased, I can say that the SC-20 is in it's element when he wind and waves pick up. During the Bandit Run (see attachment), as we were pinching up the Mansfield cut, we were hit by a small sqall(big winds and big choppy waves) which blew out our jib but we still had the main traveller centered looking for "more" power while everone else had their travellers run out. Some had tipped over while some went to shore to wait out the squall while we just kept pounding up the cut. Tough boat!
Hey Thom, Have you got your SC-20 running yet? Need someone to prep and paint them for you?

Thom / Don

You are right, I forgot to mention the SC20. I sailed a friend's SC20 a couple of times and the boat is as good as you say - and used ones can be found relatively cheap.

If it can be kept with the mast up by the beach, the SC20 is a great choice. If you need to trailer, though, its width makes it more complicated then the ARC21.

By the way, the SC20 owner, now over 60, says that he does not like to mix daggerboards and sand, so his next boat will probably be boardless, like a SC17 or that 18 ft rotomolded boardless French Hobie (I forgot the name).

His current definition of a good boat is a boat that is as basic as can be - and he is probably right. This guy sold his HC21SE (definitely not a good boat for offshore sailing) when he capsized five years ago, hit the wing and broke some ribs. That beast just can't be righted without help... he bought a used SC20 and now I am trying to convince him to move into a folding tri - which is obviously a safer and more comfortable boat for offshore sailing, especially if you want to sail until you are 100...

If the person who asked the original question is still reading, maybe a bigger boat is a good choice, if you can afford it. In this case a folding tri is definitely the best choice.

Cheers,

Hey Don & Luiz--

Being in real estate and having good economic times is the best deal you can hope for; I am sick of working. I am a little farther along on the sanding but when the phone rings its time to work... So not yet. My crew had a bad accident on her Ducatti and I have been taking care of some of her stuff as well. There just isn't time in the day for what I really like to do...Poooooor Meeeeeeeeeeee! I guess I will have to pay someone to complete the job but have doubts about the two guys that want the job. I see grinders in their shops but no orbitial sanders??? When I asked about their experience with refinishing they talk about bass boats and cabin cruisers...not exactly what I'm looking for.

I bought my F25c in June and haven't been out but twice [both times singlehanded]. Almost had a melt down docking with the board up about halfway. The end tie is on a shallow area where the power boats are so the board had to come up some to clear. The major problem was a crosswind out of the southwest. So where is your new boat?? I know Sunberg has ordered one as well...

thom

Well, at the risk of promoting my own boat........I would say the Mystere 6.0 or the 5.5 would be something to look at. I don't think there is a cat that has the hull volume of the Mystere's. And let me add, at a reasonable cost. With the XL beams and availible wings you add the safety of plenty of righting moment.

Mike Catley
M6.0

Thanks for all the great input and ideas about designs to look at. Keep em coming!

Sounds like hull volume, ruggedness and simplicity of construction and ability to take a lot of wind are good features. Bigger and longer provide more seaworthiness too, but a requirement for me will be the ability for the crew to right the boat reliably in "combat" conditions.

I have done a lot of remote sailing on extended trips on some remote coasts, all in various sailing dinghies and open boats. (1000 mile Laser and Daysailer trips on the north coast of Labrador, 6 weeks cruising the channels of patagonia in a 21' Sea Pearl, many multi week trips on the Sea of Cortez in 18 & 22 ft open boats, St Pete to Key Largo Watertribe Challenge in Expedition 14.5 dinghy, are examples)

Cat experience is limited to day sailing Hobie and Prindle 16s and am thinking now about a beach cat that will adapt well to the kind of multiday camp cruising that I like to do.

Any further advice and ideas appreciated.

George VS

Thom,

I think Christopher Sundberg has ordered a carbon Catri and probably asked for a few custom modifications, but I have no news from him since the first trials of the carbon Catri.

In the first trial the boat reached 25 knots sustained speed without wave assistance with 18-20 wind, with problems in the rudder's foil. After fixing it, they reached 27 sustained and expect more then 30 in appropriate conditions.

Anyway, what I know for sure is that he will be sailing the factory's first carbon boat while awaiting for delivery.

My boat is going slowly but steady. The engineering of the molds and lamination is not simple and the shipyard had to slow down to make it right the first time. The designer had to prepare extra drawings (more then 100 to date) because of lack of proficiency in the only common language - English.

I expect the lamination to finish in a couple of months and then will start rigging.

Cheers,

George, Another feature of the Supercat-20 is the shroud extenders. We raced in the 1st Texas 2- Step a few years ago in 35-38 mph winds and 8'+ easterly rollers. We got about 5 miles out and the wave we were on disintegrated and caused us to pitchpole. I weigh about 145 lbs. and was able to right my boat with a 12' beam in less than 45 seconds by myself and before my crew swam back to the boat. If your not into racing, the shroud extenders could be put on any boat and you must use a captive mast ball to use these but on some boats this would not be class legal for racing but is a great safety feature for the cruising class.
Don C.

Guess what my weapon of choice would be?????

Cant go past a boat with a large beam.

Stephen Medwell
Team Tornado 'ALIVE'
AUS-260
www.tornadoalive.com

Don-
Having used the shroud extenders as well I agree about how well they work. There is one other alteration that must be made to insure their use: An access hole/slice in tramp has to be installed on each side of the tramp so that the extender can be expanded from the bottom side. Otherwise you will have to climb on top again.

thom

I have a SC-17 and really enjoy the boat and its shroud extender righting system.

I agree with Thom, however there are a couple of other things you may wish to consider.

One is that the mast should have a captured ball type mast step to help ensure the mast base doesn't come off the capsized boat when the side stays are loosened.

Another thing that helps, when using a shroud extender for righting the boat, is to have some sort of system to help re-tension the side stay after the boat is righted.

What I’m referring to is my boat has a system that allows the shroud to be lengthened (for righting purposes) some 18 inches. That is accomplished by releasing the shroud lever and then unpinning the bottom eye of the side stay. The shroud length is then increased by the length of a cable lanyard, allowing the upper hull of the capsized boat to hang at an angle towards the keel, rather than at an angle towards the mast.

The problem I’ve encountered with this set up is, though righting the boat is a piece of cake with this set up, when righted, this loosened and extended side stay allows the mast to bang all over the place, when in choppy water. This then leads to really having a very difficult time when trying to reattach the side stay eye, back into the shroud tensioner, while the mast is moving all over the place, pulling the bottom of the side stay with it.

When this occurs in very choppy water and heavy air…this seems to put high and abrupt loads on the stays as they go slack and then bang tight as the loosened side stays allow the mast to swing abruptly from side to side.

This isn't a problem when double handing, because the crew just pulls the trap line tight and that quiets the side stay so I can get the pin in the eye and tensioner.

However, when single handing.... I just don't have enough hands to pull on the trap line and also hold the shroud and get the pin in.

My fix is to temporarily remove my downhaul and insert its top hook into my dog bone and pin the bottom into a shackle I have installed on the bottom of my shroud lever.

Using its 8:1 advantage and cam cleat, it quickly controls my banging mast and allows me to pin the bottom of my side stay where it belongs. After that, re-tensioning the stay is just a matter of thrown the shroud lever and I'm ready to sail again.

Has anyone else had this problem???

Tom H.

Sorry, I forgot one more observation....

That is to agree with Thom that having an access in the tramp would be handy and may make it easier to get to the shroud extender from the bottom. On the other hand, climbing up on the capsized boat, isn't that bad either.

Indeed, on my SC-17, in some conditions....after I've extended the side stay, I can sometimes stand on the mast base and get the boat to flop towards it's keel and ride the boat while it is coming right, using only the weight of me and my crew sitting on the upper hull and hanging over the keel.

When doing this one only has to time it and lean hard the other way when the boat comes right and you can stay on the tramp the whole time and not have to go swimming again, like you would if you right from the bottom, pulling on the righting line.


Tom H.

"I am thinking now about a beach cat that will adapt well to the kind of multiday camp cruising that I like to do."

G-Cat 5.0 with it's dual trampolines would be great for single-handed camp cruising. If you were to install shroud extenders, you could run a line through the base of the mast and the ball-base to keep the mast from coming free. Even without shroud extenders, a single big guy could right this boat with a line or pole.

A simple dome-tent can be set on the front trampoline, or a custom "boom tent" could be made for the rear trampoline.