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Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: ] #136558
03/17/08 12:12 PM
03/17/08 12:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
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Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
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I am currently a member...but I am evaluating my renewal palns for this year.

I'd like to see a way to earmark my membership dues to my class or boat type of choice. That way US Sailing knows that this money should only/primarily be used to promote that form of sailing. They would also have a clearer picture of where there funding is coming from and can make better decisions than they have in the past.


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: PTP] #136559
03/17/08 12:31 PM
03/17/08 12:31 PM
Joined: May 2004
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BrianK Offline
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What do the membership dues fund?

Hey, how much does it cost teams to race in the actual Alter Cup? (not the qualifiers)
I know the individuals racing have to pay for insurance which is pricey (although not having insurance would certainly be pricier). They have to pay for their own accomodations (unless a local is nice enough to house them). So what does USSailing actually provide other than their name- and the requirement that you must be a member to sail in it?


I believe it costs the Alter Cup commitee $500/boat. So $5K per year out of a fund that was established specifically for this purpose. Im assuming the account has enough in it to generate $5K of interest per year. JW maybe can confirm this.

The Alter Cup is certainly something positive for multihull sailors from US Sailing. Although it could just as easily be run from anothor organization as catsailors do the legwork (and if a comparable bugdet to pay the $5k could be found).

Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: Tornado] #136560
03/17/08 12:33 PM
03/17/08 12:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Mary used to run a US Sailing membership renewal for cats in a program called the "Golden Anchor" I think. Is that still the case Mary? Should we all pool our memberships to US Sailing and put "Multihull Membership" on it, so they know we are members and we do care about how much support we get, from them?


Blade F16
#777
Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: BrianK] #136561
03/17/08 12:34 PM
03/17/08 12:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
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How/why does it cost 500/boat? What does that 500$ pay for?

Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: Jake] #136562
03/17/08 12:36 PM
03/17/08 12:36 PM
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Portland, Maine
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To me it sounds like much of the trouble you have in the US is becouse the catamarans sailors usually are not members of sailing clubs. If you have "flag officers" and the like, I can understand why as it sounds very much like "stiff upper lip" clubs. But staying unorganized sounds like a loosing proposition over time, with beaches closing and more and more laws becoming troublesome. Representation and organization have great value when you need it.


Heaven forbid I encourage creating another internet organizational entity, but whats stopping multihullers from doing the same thing that Sailing Anarchy or Scuttlefutts has done?

A nationwide, online "yacht" club?


What do I get out of it?


p.s. that was slightly sarcastic.


The honor of being in charge. Commodore!

p.s. that was completely sarcastic :P

Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: PTP] #136563
03/17/08 01:29 PM
03/17/08 01:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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How/why does it cost 500/boat? What does that 500$ pay for?


The US Sailing Multihull Council provides $5,000 towards the charter boats for the Alter Cup. This money comes out of the Hoyt Jolly Fund and yes, it is scraped off the interest this fund generates each year.


Jake Kohl
Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: ThunderMuffin] #136564
03/17/08 01:29 PM
03/17/08 01:29 PM
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brucat Offline
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Timbo-

The Golden Anchor program for multihulls still exists, it is now coordinated by John Williams. As some have mentioned here, it is FAR from obvious how to join or renew from the website.

Here's how to access the form:

www.ussailing.org, under Racing, Sailboat Classes, Multihulls... At the bottom of that page, under Links, Golden Anchor Membership.

Now, there is a caveat that I'm not sure is well known (I just found it on the website by accident yesterday). Technically, all clubs that have a GA program are required to charge the "differential fee" to non-members.

I know that I sail at a lot of regattas, and not many of them do this anymore. It's (almost?) never in the NORs either, which I would think would be expected per the RRS (falls under Elibility).

An interesting point would be, are all multihull classes expected to conform to this since the GA program is open to all multihull classes? Or, is that a bad assumption (is there a specific list of classes that are covered)???

As to the $500 per boat for the Alter Cup, that sounds reasonable. Running a week-long event for just 20 teams has to be insanely expensive on a per-team basis.

Mike

Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: brucat] #136565
03/17/08 02:55 PM
03/17/08 02:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
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For easier access to information on US SAILING:
Golden Anchor discounted membership for Multihull sailors, http://www.ussailing.org/multihull/ga_form.asp
Alter Cup, http://www.ussailing.org/championships/adult/USMHC/
Youth Multihull Championship
http://www.ussailing.org/championships/youth/multihull/

And Sailorship, A new program to provide Financial Aid to Junior Sailors, see http://www.ussailing.org/pressreleases/2008/sailorships.asp

There are many reasons to be an active member of US SAILING. The above are just a few.

Caleb Tarleton

Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: H17cat] #136566
03/17/08 05:54 PM
03/17/08 05:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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imho USSA should focus on those few activities that require national scope and ignore everything else to keep costs low.

What USSA should do:

1) Represent the USA at the international level. The primary purpose of this representation should be to policially constrain the power of IYRU.
2) Assure that a common set of rules are used across the country(this was why NAYRU was founded, originally each area had its own set of rules)
3) Provide trained appeals judges.
That's it. I think USSA should be able to accomplish this with a staff of 2 and a budget of <$1M.

What USSA should NOT do:
1) Run any regattas (including championships). Regattas are run by clubs and sanctioned by classes. By sponsoring regattas USSA is in direct conflict with its own constituents. The USSA ladder events are pale imitations of the real championships most competitors care about such as the <insert classs here> National Championships.
2) Teach sailing. Clubs and classes have great training programs. Once again USSA is competing with its own constituents, and doing a comparatively poor job of it.
3) Create a unified schedule. This is (and should be) a class and/or YRA issue.
4) Fund any sailors or sailing events out of membership dues. This includes ladder events, olympic events, olympic sailors, handicapped sailors, etc. If USSA wants to establish a seperately funded subsidiary that's fine, just don't use the dues or any facilities/equipment that is derived from dues. I find it offensive a mandatory tax I pay to race sailboats is used to pay other people to race sailboats.
5) Train judges and/or race committees (this should be the job of the YRA).
6) Fund the development of a handicaping system. The VPP/IMS/Americap debacle was disgraceful. USSA using hundreds of thousands of extorted dollars to purposely undercut establshed classes.


From Sailing Anarchy and written by a big boat sailor in my region whom I have great respect for.

I like his proposal. This would mean...
No Alter qualifiers or championships.
No Olympic coaches on the payroll
No Olympic class regattas.... Leave that up to the International class to organize.
No Junior Olympic /ISAF qualfying regattas. Again. leave it up to the international class to manage.
No funding for the Portsmouth System. (See RYA proposal)
No group policy for insurance to run regattas. (marketplace solutions no need for ussa sanctioned)
No group policy for charters (leasing or purchasing)
It would shift the emphasis to your RSA and club.
Under these circumstances... I would be happy to be a mandatory member for a nominal fee.

Then it would shift the work load to your RSA which will have to address the administrative issues of the sport in a manner that you could effect locally. These costs would be addressed locally and probably with mandatory membership fee.
I would be happy to pay
US Sailing 5 to 10 bucks for these services (mandatory to race)

RSA (CBYRA in my case) for 45 bucks (mandatory to race) The RSA trains judges, trains RC, certificaton of junior sailing instuctution organizes schedule, maintains regional highpoints, runs the appeals process. place to go to have rc fixed. Yacht club and individual membership based. Membership enforced at the Yacht Club level ... when you want to race in your region ... you join.

Other fees,

Class dues Purpose to allow the class to run national and mid winter championships and what ever else they want to do..

Handicap fleet membership dues... (Not all racing is one design... this would support a handicap rating system of your choosing PHRF, Portsmouth or SCHRS what ever your region uses)

Club dues /Regatta fees

Comments/


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: brucat] #136567
03/17/08 06:44 PM
03/17/08 06:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Now, there is a caveat that I'm not sure is well known (I just found it on the website by accident yesterday). Technically, all clubs that have a GA program are required to charge the "differential fee" to non-members.

I think that's kinda why the Multihull Council set up its own Golden Anchor Program years ago, since so many clubs and fleets don't have one. It gives ALL multihull sailors a way to join USSailing at a lesser cost. Plus if you DO go to a regatta put on by a club or fleet that charges the differential price, you have your membership card, so you get the lower price. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: Mark Schneider] #136568
03/17/08 06:50 PM
03/17/08 06:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline OP
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I tend to agree with you Mark (and the anonymous big boat sailor) with one major exception: Anyone who administers the sport on the water (Judges, Race Officers, Umpires) need to be trained to a consistent set of criteria. They are all applying aspects of the rules and it's important that those applications be consistent nationally and internationally.

Put all race administration training under the US SAILING umbrella and call it a day.

Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: Mark Schneider] #136569
03/17/08 06:55 PM
03/17/08 06:55 PM
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Posts: 215
Ohio
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TeamTeets Offline
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Ohio
Nearly all 501(c)(3) organizations tax forms 990 are available with free registration at guidestar.org . Search for "US Sailing" and they are about the 3rd link. It details where your money is going. For 2006, 7.8M in revenue, 6.8M in expenses. 5.8M is providing services:
  • 1.6M Olympic
  • 1.9M Race Mangement
  • 1.1M newsletter and communication with 34000 members
  • 860k in keelboat and training

Keep in mind that not-for-profit doesn't mean they don't make profits. It means the profits are put back into the organization to pursue their public purpose.


Mike, Ohio
Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: TeamTeets] #136570
03/17/08 11:11 PM
03/17/08 11:11 PM
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brucat Offline
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Have to agree with Matt about the RC and judge training.

I am completely clueless on where $1.9M could have been spent on "Race Management." What the hell does that include? When has anyone gotten a red cent from US SAILING to help run a regatta?

Mike

Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: brucat] #136571
03/18/08 05:59 AM
03/18/08 05:59 AM
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Posts: 215
Ohio
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TeamTeets Offline
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Race management includes training of judges and race officers, administering the handicap systems, and publishing the rules. Actually I mistyped it... should have been "administration" not "management".

Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: TeamTeets] #136572
03/18/08 08:06 AM
03/18/08 08:06 AM
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brucat Offline
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It would make more sense if it were just "Administration" and included salaries, rent, meeting costs, travel, etc.

There has to be something else included under this umbrella. It is completely unfathomable that is costs $1,900,000 to train and certify judges and ROs, "administer" handicaps and publish rules.

Mike

Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: brucat] #136573
03/18/08 03:08 PM
03/18/08 03:08 PM
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There has to be something else included under this umbrella. It is completely unfathomable that is costs $1,900,000 to train and certify judges and ROs, "administer" handicaps and publish rules.

Mike


Its the stickers...


Nacra F18 #856
Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING? [Re: rexdenton] #136574
03/27/08 12:52 AM
03/27/08 12:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
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Why cant they update the portsmouth numbers. 2 years! C'mon man, is anybody awake in there? No offense John and Jake but I will think hard about renewal.

Lee Wicklund/Team Chums


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
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