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Shroud tension #137005
03/19/08 12:25 PM
03/19/08 12:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 241
Largo, Florida
papayamon2 Offline OP
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papayamon2  Offline OP
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Posts: 241
Largo, Florida
I replaced my shrouds for the new season on my Trac 14, and the new ones are just a hair longer than the old ones. I'm able to effectively shorten them by changing some shackles, but I'm also wondering whether I should add something adjustable like my old Prindle 18 had. My question, though, is what the benefit is to having tighter shrouds. Does the rig leaning that little bit more actually translate into that much lost power? What exactly is gained by tightening them (which was instructed in my P18 manual)? Is this a performance issue, or just a matter of preventing the mast from slipping off the base in a capsize? If the latter, that would have happened if possible in yesterday's glorious pitchpole in the gulf... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Thanks,
Kevin

Last edited by papayamon2; 03/19/08 12:26 PM.
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Re: Shroud tension [Re: papayamon2] #137006
03/19/08 02:43 PM
03/19/08 02:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 330
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srm Offline
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I'm not too familiar with the Trac 14, but as a general rule of thumb, I would say certainly keep the shrouds tight enough so that there is no chance of the mast disengaging from the step in the event of a capsize. The reason to allow some looseness in the shrouds is so that the mast can rotate. Also, on boats that require a lot of mast rake (like the Hobie 14 and 17) loose shrouds allow the mast to stand more upright when sailing downwind.

My suggestion- make the shrouds loose enough so that the mast can freely rotate, but tight enough so that the mast doesn't bang around in chop.

sm

Re: Shroud tension [Re: papayamon2] #137007
03/19/08 02:52 PM
03/19/08 02:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 168
San Diego
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hokie Offline
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San Diego
I am a lot more familiar with conventional keelboat rigging so I am sure others can add to or refute what I have to say, but it is my understanding that on a rotating mast the shrouds are not functioning to shape the mast but only to hold it up. The diamond stays along with downhaul and mainsheet will control mast shape/sail shape. So on the catamaran with rotating mast your shrouds need to be tight enough to keep the mast from falling off/flopping around and loose enough so that the mast can still rotate. So really shroud adjustment I would suppose is just a matter of how long you have your forestay set, but forestay tension is still controlled by the mainsheet. It sounds like you have yours about right. The only reasons I know to adjust them is that it can be advantageous in light air to have slightly looser shrouds so that downwind your mast can rake further forward or in a capsize if you extend a shroud on the side out of the water it can make recovery easier.



Re: Shroud tension [Re: hokie] #137008
03/19/08 03:43 PM
03/19/08 03:43 PM

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I am constantly told the harder she blows, the tighter the rigging needs to be. I also feel that i can point better with tight rigging.

Re: Shroud tension [Re: hokie] #137009
03/19/08 07:59 PM
03/19/08 07:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 297
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rexdenton Offline
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Quote
I am a lot more familiar with conventional keelboat rigging so I am sure others can add to or refute what I have to say, but it is my understanding that on a rotating mast the shrouds are not functioning to shape the mast but only to hold it up. The diamond stays along with downhaul and mainsheet will control mast shape/sail shape. So on the catamaran with rotating mast your shrouds need to be tight enough to keep the mast from falling off/flopping around and loose enough so that the mast can still rotate. So really shroud adjustment I would suppose is just a matter of how long you have your forestay set, but forestay tension is still controlled by the mainsheet. It sounds like you have yours about right. The only reasons I know to adjust them is that it can be advantageous in light air to have slightly looser shrouds so that downwind your mast can rake further forward or in a capsize if you extend a shroud on the side out of the water it can make recovery easier.

Actually, the luff cut/curve along with the downhaul puts a shape on the mast; the more you yank on the downhaul, the more the sail curves the mast. (If you roll out your main, and tack it down, you can see curve on the front of the sail. If that curve is not there, your sail needs the luff rope (bolt rope) to be released -they shrink A LOT over time!) By comparison, Tension on the mainstays, facilitates adding a little more curve, but mostly positions the rake (how far back) the mast ‘tips’. In lighter air looser shrouds allow the mast, and sail, and therefore ‘center of effort of the rig to pitch forward. This provides a bit more power (esp downwind), but in heavy air, it can work against you by allowing the main to leverage the boat to far forward and pointing your bows ‘down the mine’. Most cat sailors, rake it back in heavy air, depowering the rig. The more aft the main is, the better it points, too.


Nacra F18 #856
Re: Shroud tension [Re: rexdenton] #137010
03/20/08 11:35 AM
03/20/08 11:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
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Vancouver, BC
Another point to having higher tension is to keep the forestay tighter which reduces jib luff sag. This is more important in light air when you're not honking on the main hard.


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: Shroud tension [Re: Tornado] #137011
03/21/08 03:02 AM
03/21/08 03:02 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 36
Slovenia
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igorn Offline
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Slovenia
thanks a lot,i am reading and learning every day on this forum. even w/o asking...interesting

Re: Shroud tension [Re: igorn] #137012
03/21/08 07:48 AM
03/21/08 07:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline
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Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
I think that too many people define rig tension as what they feel on the beach. They strum their forestay and say "Tight as a guitar string...Great!". This is useless and without merit when it comes to on-the-water tension.

We ALL have seen how the lee shroud flops when reaching. Less obvious but just as real is forestay sag when off the wind. No matter how tight it seems on the beach, under loads of sailing you only run on the two windward stays . Platform flex, mast stiffness, and mainsheet tension all add into the mix. I've heard repeated stories of people successfully sailing great distances with a lee shroud completely broken !

If you acknowledge that massive rig flexing loosens a lee stay, can anyone explain to me how "setting" rig tension relates to actual sailing conditions in any way?

Re: Shroud tension [Re: David Parker] #137013
03/21/08 11:12 AM
03/21/08 11:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
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Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Lee shroud slack is primarily due to mast bending under load.

Having a preferred rig tension "on the beach" will reduce forestay sag when you are sailing in light air going to weather....ie when you don't use a lot of or any mainsheet tension. This is important more for racing than just tooling around.


Quote
I think that too many people define rig tension as what they feel on the beach. They strum their forestay and say "Tight as a guitar string...Great!". This is useless and without merit when it comes to on-the-water tension.

We ALL have seen how the lee shroud flops when reaching. Less obvious but just as real is forestay sag when off the wind. No matter how tight it seems on the beach, under loads of sailing you only run on the two windward stays . Platform flex, mast stiffness, and mainsheet tension all add into the mix. I've heard repeated stories of people successfully sailing great distances with a lee shroud completely broken !

If you acknowledge that massive rig flexing loosens a lee stay, can anyone explain to me how "setting" rig tension relates to actual sailing conditions in any way?


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"

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