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Rescue #137989
03/28/08 08:57 AM
03/28/08 08:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline OP
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ksurfer2  Offline OP
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K

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
Last night it was my turn in the rotation for RC duty at my clubs Thursday night race series. Most of the boats racing a large monohulls with a bunch of portsmouth boats and a couple cats thrown in the mix. By 6:15 we had our course set, and the start line in place and were waiting for 6:30 to begin the rolling starts that take 30 minutes to get through. A Nacra 5.8 was sailing around waiting for the start an capsized just prior to 6:30. He was single handing and unable to right the boat on his own. He was drifting slowly downwind with many other boats sailing around him, but none offering any assistance. There was nothing I could do at this point as I was responsible for getting all the starts off on time. I kept an eye on him to make sure he stayed with his boat and he seemed to be doing fine. At 7pm when we were done getting all the starts off, we pulled anchor and hurried down to him to assist. By this time he had gone turtle and a large sailboat was attempting to assist. We took over from the sailboat and sent them on their way. We attemted to right the boat by using the tying a line to the mast base and attempting to right by pulling the boat bows over the stern as I have learned this is the correct way to assist a turtled cat. The mast was full of water and the boat would get to pointing straight up and then flop back on its side and return to turtle. Things got scary....the only place on this body of water deep enough to go turtle is the main shipping channel into the port. A LARGE tanker was coming up the channel, a rather frantic conversation took place. Do we get him off the boat get out of dodge and hope the tanker doesn't run over his boat, or do we give it one more shot? We opted to go like hell and drag him out of the channel. We made it out of the channel and away from the path of the tanker. The boat was still turtle with a mast full of water. We took one more shot at righting him and with the committee boat at full throttle (big diesle on about a 24 foot work boat), it slowly came upright. The main was torn to shreds, but other than that, the boat was intact. We towed him back to the beach left him safely there.

lessons learned.....

1. Don't single hand a boat you can't right yourself.
2. Don't rely on others to help you in case you need it. I was very dissappointed at all the other boats out there that just sailed around him without offering any assistance. This would have been a non-issue if someone had helped him right prior to him going turtle.
3. The boat is not worth your life. When it comes down to it, get out of trouble and worry about your boat later. It can be replaced.


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Rescue [Re: ksurfer2] #137990
03/28/08 09:21 AM
03/28/08 09:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
There are a million things I can add to this later when I have some time, but my main question is, was your boat the only power boat resource on the water?

If so, count your blessings that he flipped it before the start, stayed with the boat and stayed where you could see him. This could have turned out much, much worse.

Mike

Re: Rescue [Re: brucat] #137991
03/28/08 09:26 AM
03/28/08 09:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline OP
old hand
ksurfer2  Offline OP
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K

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
Yes, we were the only powerboat on the water. I did notice a couple running up towards the port and ramp area, but either did not see, or chose not to assist the cat.


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: Rescue [Re: ksurfer2] #137992
03/28/08 09:37 AM
03/28/08 09:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
old hand
Will_R  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Idea: If in that situation again (mast full - boat wants to be turtle), put a float on the mast i.e. a large fender of two.

Re: Rescue [Re: Will_R] #137993
03/28/08 10:17 AM
03/28/08 10:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 168
San Diego
H
hokie Offline
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hokie  Offline
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H

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 168
San Diego
Just wondering if bows over stern is the preferred method on beach cats or only larger cats and trimarans?



Re: Rescue [Re: ksurfer2] #137994
03/28/08 11:10 AM
03/28/08 11:10 AM

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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote
Yes, we were the only powerboat on the water. I did notice a couple running up towards the port and ramp area, but either did not see, or chose not to assist the cat.


That is why I now carry this with me. I am now sailing small lakes with just a few of us and we may not have help readily available.

http://www.murrays.com/mm5/merchant...ore_Code=MS&Product_Code=01-6051

I would rather be safe than sorry!!

Doug

Last edited by DougSnell; 03/28/08 11:14 AM.
Re: Rescue [Re: ] #137995
03/28/08 11:27 AM
03/28/08 11:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
Smiths_Cat Offline
addict
Smiths_Cat  Offline
addict

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
I prefer to have my mobile phone with me. It could be helpful if I am seperated from my boat.

Cheers,

Klaus

Re: Rescue [Re: Smiths_Cat] #137996
03/28/08 11:56 AM
03/28/08 11:56 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Klaus,

try this once. Jump into the sea upwind of a safe landing place like a beach with no big surf and well within swimming range, or swim some small distance out. Try using your phone or a replica with real buttons while lying in the chop or waves. Try to have a meaningful conversation of about 2 minutes without getting the phone soaked. Remember that you are not likely to be separated from your boat unless there is some wind, so try it a summer day with some wind and chop. Unless you have some really special precautions, I would save the phone in its waterproof package until I was back on land.


I have helped right Tornados who have gone over with big holes in their masts. We towed them sideways until the mast was accesible from the boat and then had boat no. 2 grab the mast and let it drain a bit. Then we towed them sideways and 'threw' the stick upwards to get it started. Once the centerboards got some grip they came up, but crew had to be really alert and hang on to the mainbeam to stop it from going over the other way. The mast is really heavy when it is full of water after a turtle!

Quote
1. Don't single hand a boat you can't right yourself.
2. Don't rely on others to help you in case you need it. I was very dissappointed at all the other boats out there that just sailed around him without offering any assistance. This would have been a non-issue if someone had helped him right prior to him going turtle.
3. The boat is not worth your life. When it comes down to it, get out of trouble and worry about your boat later. It can be replaced.

Totally agree

Re: Rescue [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #137997
03/28/08 12:05 PM
03/28/08 12:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 57
Minneapolis
Mpls_Nacra Offline
journeyman
Mpls_Nacra  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 57
Minneapolis
my Nacra 5.8 seems to turtle very quickly. What can i do to help prevent that?


Dave Foster
Minneapolis
Nacra F16
Re: Rescue [Re: Mpls_Nacra] #137998
03/28/08 12:17 PM
03/28/08 12:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
Put it under water... see where bubbles are coming from. Seal the heck out of those areas with silicone.
Or
Have your mast in the shade on a hot day. Put it in the sun... soap it up. Seal the smack out of where it is bubbling.
or
look at every single fitting on your mast and if there is a question smear the hell out of it with silicone.
or
hobie bob it

One of the last times I went out sailing I capsized and there was so much wind on the bottom of the tramp it was pushing the mast under and once the sails were in and it was drifiting it pushed it down more. I was really worried about turtling there although the bay were I was was probably not deep enough to go completely turle. That would lead to a problem with damage to the mast if it did hit the bottom. The mast came back up easily. I haven't looked specificly for holes in my mast byt putting it under water, etc... but I did look around soecificaly for issues and goobered areas up that I was a little concerned about. That being said... I think there is some styrofoam in my mast though.

Last edited by PTP; 03/28/08 12:20 PM.
Re: Rescue [Re: Mpls_Nacra] #137999
03/28/08 12:19 PM
03/28/08 12:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
J
JACKFLASH Offline
enthusiast
JACKFLASH  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
Make sure your mast does not have any leaks is the first place to start. If the issue presist and you are like me, being prone to going over, you may want to consider a fixed float or a tetherable float that you can send up/down the mast after the boat is turtled.


Collin Casey
Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
Re: Rescue [Re: JACKFLASH] #138000
03/28/08 12:22 PM
03/28/08 12:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 57
Minneapolis
Mpls_Nacra Offline
journeyman
Mpls_Nacra  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 57
Minneapolis
with the 5.8 it has the ring and hook system. how can i lower the mail sail if it turtles, and then send up a float? or am i hosed on that point.


Dave Foster
Minneapolis
Nacra F16
Re: Rescue [Re: Mpls_Nacra] #138001
03/28/08 12:25 PM
03/28/08 12:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
J
JACKFLASH Offline
enthusiast
JACKFLASH  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
You would have seperate line on the side of the mast for the float. The sail you would leave alone. You should check the mast for leaks first. You might be surprised to find it does leak and how much less likely you are to turtle when it is not filling with water.


Collin Casey
Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
Re: Rescue [Re: hokie] #138002
03/28/08 12:50 PM
03/28/08 12:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
Just wondering if bows over stern is the preferred method on beach cats or only larger cats and trimarans?


I'm glad nobody was injured - pity nobody would help early enough.

The preferred method in this case IS bow over stern. I have seen two catamarans - one a Supercat 21 and the other a large Mystere, attempt to be righted over their sides with masts full of water. Both boats suffered a good deal of hull damage from the tow line as it tried to right from the side. Having water in the mast really works against you especially given enough time to fill completely.


Jake Kohl
Re: Rescue [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #138003
03/28/08 12:52 PM
03/28/08 12:52 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Mark P Offline
old hand
Mark P  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Here in the UK after you have completed your RYA Power boat level 2 certificate (which is mandatory prior to driving any Club safety craft) you can then attain your Safety boat certificate. During this additional course the RYA prescribed method for up turning a turtled Cat is from the side. The safety boats toe rope is tied to the Cats righting line which should be fastened to the mast foot and around what will be the high hull (windward once the cat is upright). The complete length of he toe rope must be longer than the mast our somebody will get a nasty headache if the Cat flips. Once this has been done the safety boat uses enough throttle to turn into the wind and then applies more throttle to eventually get the cat on it's side and then into the upright position.
At Mumbles we wouldn't hold a race unless there is at least one safety boat on the water plus committee boat.


MP*MULTIHULLS
Re: Rescue [Re: Mark P] #138004
03/28/08 01:28 PM
03/28/08 01:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
old hand
pepin  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
What Mark said. I did the same course a while back and recovered turtled cats since then. As our safety boat lines are equipped with carabiniers so I simply loop the line over the front beam and pass it over the hull and pull sideway. Works fine for small cats even with a full mast: been there, done that. Just watch where the line goes and that it is not in a position to slice a hull or a crew. Have the crew try to sink the lower stern while you pull the line with the safety boat to get it back to the side, it helps.

Bow over stern is the only way to get a tri back up, I never had to recover one yet but as we have a couple of small tri on the parking lot I asked. It's also the right way to get a big cat back up, but things that big don't sail on our reservoir anyway.

As for safety cover *nobody* sail on our reservoir if there is not a safety boat present manned by a trained safety coxwain with up-to-date first aid training. The racing team get their own separate boat(s).

Re: Rescue [Re: pepin] #138005
03/28/08 01:41 PM
03/28/08 01:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 736
Westport, Ma. U.S.A.
Brian_Mc Offline
old hand
Brian_Mc  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 736
Westport, Ma. U.S.A.
When Righting fails due to mast filling with water, you can release a shroud, and tie the mast to the boat, right it, haul it aboard and await a tow. Hopefully save your life, and the boat.

Re: Rescue [Re: Brian_Mc] #138006
03/28/08 03:16 PM
03/28/08 03:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 57
Minneapolis
Mpls_Nacra Offline
journeyman
Mpls_Nacra  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 57
Minneapolis
I had to break down the boat. we were on a lake with no power boats allowed. My crew was at the help and his inexperience came through. the boat turtled quickly and well, it was time to break it down. it was a good experience, but one I hope not to repeat.


Dave Foster
Minneapolis
Nacra F16
Re: Rescue [Re: Smiths_Cat] #138007
03/28/08 07:18 PM
03/28/08 07:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Quote
I prefer to have my mobile phone with me. It could be helpful if I am seperated from my boat.

A radio is better. Phones are one to one. Radios are one to many.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: Rescue [Re: hobie1616] #138008
03/28/08 07:56 PM
03/28/08 07:56 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Any radio recommendations? We had some range difficulties in last year's Border Raid, while cellphones turned out to be quite useful for some competitors.

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