I had an interesting exchange of email with a Bimare representative and he suggested that they could transform a X16 into a F16 in the factory: Shorter mast, larger spi and main, longer beams. He quoted me around 12.5K€ for one, weight should be in the 105Kg range.

This would be a solo boat only, the X16 hulls are not designed for a jib and are not reinforced in the right areas to install one. You could sail with two crew as there is two trapezes, nothing in the F16 rules prevent you racing with less sail area, but don't expect to be competitive then.

I figure somebody might be interested in getting one, could be an interesting alternative.

interesting.. If enough inquiries happen then Im sure the factory may look at a few pultrusion "batterns" to increase strength to handle a jib..

I do wonder (since Im not a designer nor an engineer) how much stress a jib puts on compared to a kite.. Or should I say additional stress since the highest stress should be kite and jib combined.. Anyone?

Install a bow foil and even hulls not designed for a jib should do OK??

I've not seen one in the flesh, but know of them for a fair old time.

If you look at this pic:



It looks like the forestay bridals go high up (like the A classes) and so most of the load is in the vertical plane for rig tension, BUT there is still kite loads in the horizontal.

As soon as you add the jib (and thus need lower bridals) you then add to the side loads, espically up wind in waves. Might not be quite so simple to just add a jib and more strengthening.

For the jib he was really clear: The factory will not put a jib as the hull structure would have to change. The forestay attachments are too far back, there is no space for a jib in the forward triangle. Moving them forward to make space is not an option as the hull is not designed to take load there.

Yep, Carbon bow foil..... Should be able to get the tack of the jib down lower then you would with a bridal too.

The kite also only just makes it past the bows!!
Still knowing the loads would be interesting..

thanks

What is a bow foil ? Any pics ?

A bow foil does not reduce the lateral loads introduced by the jib at all. It compensates the lateral loads in the bridle wires, which are caused by the their disadvantageous angle.
On the previous Javelin 16 (which I have), the moveable hooter/spi pole is attached to the bow and not to the forstay fittings (how do you call this in English?).
So far I can tell you, that the Bimare guys took care about unessential reinforcement hull reinforcement, and if they state "don't add a jib"...
However even without a jib it is a beautiful boat (or because it has no jib?) and seems well engineered, and when I finally get the opportunity to sail it (this week end if god is gracious, I am on the edge), I will tell you, if it sails as beautiful as it looks.

Rolf, it is maybe the Italien F16 web presence...

Cheers,

Klaus

This is further proof of the legitimacy of the class with the quality of the boats coming into it. I hope the exchange rate improves soon so it makes them a viable option in the US.

Cheers,
Neville

In Europe we are secretly hoping you guys elect another idiot so the dollar stays nice and low. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The USA deserves and needs a really good president now. Bad jokes aside, I am certain most europeans hope things begin to look better over there soon. Would be good for the class and the builders if the economy improved so people ccould buy F16s built both locally and abroad.

X16 looks good. Hope I get to see one soon and compare it to the F16s. What really would be cool was all the F16 designs on the same starting line with some I17s, X16s etc. to see how they mixed up.

EurOcat starts in about 20 days time, who knows what's going to turn up in the C1 Class. Entry fee paid, Ferry paid and Hotel Booked. That just leaves the problem of finding my Insurance details and Measurement Certificate!!!!

A Javelin 16 with new X16 appendages will be at Carnac, but no X16.

Today, I set the first time sails on my 2004 Javelin 16. I am sailing on the Baltic sea. It was sunny and dry, with off-shore winds of 12kts and gusts up to 19kts. My last boat was a Dart 18.
First time rigging, it took a long time and I didn't attach the hooter because I was already late. The rudder kinematics are not easy to use, but maybe I need only some leasons. Finally on deep water, boards and rudders lowered the boat took off with a buzz noise. I under estimated the wind and I got a lot of adrenalin due to the heeling moment in each gust, the acceleration and resulting speed in this conditions. The boat is tacking on a penny and I nearly capsized during on of my first tacks. I nearly capsized on two other opportunities because the main sheet cleat was in a too low position. Hence I decided to go back to the beach and readjusted it. Back on the water with an uncleated main I had things under control and the boat handling was excellent. My friend sailed his old T, and we had fun to let the hulls fly high in formation flight, which is very easy on the Javelin (at lower winds, the T sent his crew to the leeward hull). On one hull the boat is very stable and easy to keep there. It can also point very high. Out- and downhaul and rotation are easy to use and sheet loads are low. I am wondering how it behaves on strong wind when sailed solo. There is a steep learning curve in front of me...

Cheers,

Klaus

Klaus,

Now you are officially part of the club !

Welcome. May your boat give you many years of enjoyment.

Wouter

Enjoy! And congratulations.

Bimare makes great boats. Is the mast a Riba carbon mast? I would actually trust the Riba mast on the HT above any other beach cat mast. Despite what everyone has said about the Jav2 in the past, I have sailed 2 for a year or so and their durability is actually quite amazing given their lightweight (they do, however, have that lightweight boat problem of easily dented skin).
The hull at the transom seems a little narrow. Have you noticed the rear beam digging in?
Looks like the rudder set up on the X16 is the same as on the HT. If you want to know a great and easy way to make them simpler with an easier pull down method let me know. The way we do it also allows it to come up if you run aground.

Hi PTP,


Yes


The previous owner tested it already twice... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> But not deep enough to take care at moment. Maybe later when I add some other dents and it looks like a golf ball...


Well, it was off shore wind, hence no waves. To my surprise the boat is not as sensitive to fore-aft weight trim as I suspected from the hull shape, but it was only my 70kg. Officially it can carry up to 255kg... I will post my first strong wind expierence with this boat, when I dare to sail then.


Yes seems to be the same. Thanks for the offer, I would indeed appreciate if you could tell me your modification.

Cheers,

Klaus