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Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: Mary] #140485
04/21/08 02:20 PM
04/21/08 02:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 216
Lakewood, Colorado
MUST429 Offline
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MUST429  Offline
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Posts: 216
Lakewood, Colorado
Quote
I figure if I tie about 12 gallon jugs of water to my aft beam, I should be able to radically increase my speed on the beam reaches and deep reaches in heavy air. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I sure can't eat enough to gain 100 pounds myself. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Fill them with Beer, Bourbon, Whisky Scotch, Pina Colada Mix, Marguerita Mix and Rum and Tequila and you will be the most popular girl on the race course. For a whole new reason besided your stunning good looks and your sterling personality. Heck, I'd probably follow you around, even if you Don't laugh at my jokes.

Speaking of Jokes......

An older man approached an attractive younger woman at a
shopping mall.

"Excuse me; I can't seem to find my wife. Can you talk to me for a couple of minutes?"

The woman, feeling a bit of compassion for the old fellow, said, "Of course, sir. Do you know where your wife might be?"

"I have no idea, but every time I talk to a woman with a chest like yours, she seems to appear out of nowhere."


Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: Mary] #140486
04/21/08 02:23 PM
04/21/08 02:23 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



I have devised a special diet to help with your goals… 1 pizza for breakfast, 1 pizza for lunch and an unsensible meal for dinner (like 12 bigmac’s, or 12 whoopers)

Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: ] #140487
04/21/08 02:36 PM
04/21/08 02:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Thanks for the advice.
Breakfast and lunch sound okay, but I don't think I have ever been able to eat more than five Big Macs at one meal.

Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: Mary] #140488
04/21/08 02:36 PM
04/21/08 02:36 PM

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Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
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LOL!!!!

Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: ] #140489
04/21/08 02:48 PM
04/21/08 02:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 47
C
carlm Offline
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carlm  Offline
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Posts: 47
what's a "whooper" is that like a yooper from Michigan's Upper Peninsula?...or is it a whopper from BK? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: Wouter] #140490
04/21/08 03:43 PM
04/21/08 03:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline
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Bay of Islands, NZ
Quote

That boat is NOT (fully) planing. There is none of the telltail spray pushed out to the sides of the hull. There maybe some hydrodynamic forces in the vertical direction but the wake does not look any difference then from any other lightweigth fast beachcat.

There is also alot of erroneous comments presented in this thread, but I'm not going to correct them.

Wouter


Wouter, this is VERY specially for you.

The boat is only sailing at about 12/15 knots in these images. So no, it is not throwing spray out the side. It did on occasion on that day but no photo. I include a photo of my Nacra sailing in less wind and going slower as you can see by my being inboard. Check the lee hulls of the two boats.
I have been checking my theories out with a proven boat designer and Olympic sailor. Oddly enough I take his opinion far more seriously than yours.

I make this pledge to you.

This boat will travel comfortably at 20 knots and will be tracked at 25knots over a measured distance or I will crash and burn trying.

I do not care what you think about what is erroneous and what is not.
There is a point at which all of your computer "virtual" world becomes nothing more than the twittering of a "knowitall".
I have made my own less than scientific observations and will put my actions where my mouth is.
You however will wait and watch for the opportunity to pull someone down.

Attached Files
142954-DSC_6608.jpg (100 downloads)
Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: Mary] #140491
04/21/08 04:45 PM
04/21/08 04:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Quote

Thank you for clarifying that. I always thought that "hull speed" was a speed beyond which that
hull could not possibly go, even with more power added.



This is one of those impossible to kill falsehoods that is debunked about once of twice a year. We've been over this topic about 10 times the last 7 years so do a search and learn what is really true.

Don't believe 80% of the sailing books out there. They all got it all wrong.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: warbird] #140492
04/21/08 04:51 PM
04/21/08 04:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Quote

I have been checking my theories out with a proven boat designer and Olympic sailor. Oddly enough I take his opinion far more seriously than yours.



You could be talking to Glenn Ashby for all I care. That boat is not planing in those pictures in the scientific sense and that is final.

And I don't care what you think of me.

And why does everybody convince himself that I'm a computer sailor ? Hell, I have 2 sailboats (1 homemade), 6 landyachts (partly homemade), 1 kite buggy, a quiver of stunt kites (home-made) and 1 surfboard. And I've been sailing since I'm 12 and have worked as a sailing instructor for 4 years. Even got a engineering grade in this field.

If you don't like me, then that is fine, but don't convinced yourself that I'm some knucklehead who doesn't know what he is talking about. You only make a fool of yourself.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 04/21/08 04:56 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: Wouter] #140493
04/21/08 04:55 PM
04/21/08 04:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 757
japan
erice Offline
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erice  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 757
japan
to delay pitchpoling at high speeds, (where the sail is trying to go faster than the hulls and the cat trips over the bows), you could add weight to the rear of the hulls

BUT, because of the problems mentioned already it would be better to simply cant the rig back as speeds increase, thereby increasing the distance between the bows and the sail's center of effort

which is exactly what windsurfers do already...


eric e
1982 nacra 5.2 - 2158
2009 weta tri - 294
Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: MUST429] #140494
04/21/08 07:03 PM
04/21/08 07:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
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"I have no idea, but every time I talk to a woman with a chest like yours, she seems to appear out of nowhere."

Ain't it the truth. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: hobie1616] #140495
04/21/08 08:02 PM
04/21/08 08:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Darryl_Barrett Offline
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Darryl_Barrett  Offline
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Posts: 1,012
South Australia
THE ANSWER IS 42 (Not 42 knots or 42 MPH or 42 KMS just 42) everyone SHOULD know that!!! - it is the answer to everything - (watch out for the mice!)

Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: Wouter] #140496
04/21/08 08:05 PM
04/21/08 08:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 539
taipanfc Offline
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Quote

Don't believe 80% of the sailing books out there. They all got it all wrong.

Wouter


Can't wait for your book, when do you plan to publish?

Can we have a catsailor poll/vote for the name?

Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: taipanfc] #140497
04/21/08 08:21 PM
04/21/08 08:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
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Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
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Can we have a catsailor poll/vote for the name?

We'll need potential titles for a poll/vote. I'll go first.

"Steve Fossett and Larry Ellison Can Eat My Shorts"

"The Wouter Identity"

"True Lies II"

Last edited by hobie1616; 04/21/08 08:24 PM.

US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: hobie1616] #140498
04/21/08 09:03 PM
04/21/08 09:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
W
warbird Offline
old hand
warbird  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
Quote
Quote
Can we have a catsailor poll/vote for the name?

We'll need potential titles for a poll/vote. I'll go first.

"Steve Fossett and Larry Ellison Can Eat My Shorts"

"The Wouter Identity"

"True Lies II"


"Born to be Riled"

"Wouter Wonka and the Reality Factory"

"Mien Truth"

Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: hobie1616] #140499
04/21/08 09:06 PM
04/21/08 09:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 116
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Al Schuster Offline
member
Al Schuster  Offline
member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 116
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
I pick #1 <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In my case, the answer is not very damn fast until it warms up.

Attached Files
142992-April19-08.jpg (73 downloads)
Suggest y'all read: [Re: Mary] #140500
04/21/08 09:27 PM
04/21/08 09:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
tami Offline
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tami  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
AERO-HYDRODYNAMICS OF SAILING, C.A. Marchaj;
SEAWORTHINESS: THE FORGOTTEN FACTOR, C.A. Marchaj;

HIGH PERFORMANCE SAILING, Frank Bethwaite

www.arvelgentry.com Arvel Gentry's website (Marchaj references him.)

Once you understand the principles, you can work it out for yourself.

Re: Suggest y'all read: [Re: tami] #140501
04/21/08 09:33 PM
04/21/08 09:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 431
Netherlands
DennisMe Offline
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DennisMe  Offline
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Posts: 431
Netherlands
Quote

Once you understand the principles, you can work it out for yourself.


Ah yes.... But the fun really starts once you MISunderstand the principles and work it out for everyone else <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: erice] #140502
04/21/08 09:52 PM
04/21/08 09:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 198
D
davidtilley Offline
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davidtilley  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 198
The head over heels moment is a product of the height of the center of effort(pushing point) above the drag (of the hulls) of the sails and the force of the sails. As such, the position of the sails fore and aft is irrelevant.
Windsurfers tilt the rig for various other reasons:
Their arms arn't long enough (the can only get their weight aft by pulling the sail with them)
They would rather have lift than de-power, so canting it over makes sense.
Canting it over lowers the center of effort

Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: MUST429] #140503
04/21/08 10:20 PM
04/21/08 10:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 127
Florida
H
Hogshead Offline
member
Hogshead  Offline
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H

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 127
Florida
Wel let's see... Last year in the Hogs Breath over a measured 82 actual miles on long running tacks before jibeing to short running tacks we had a Marstrom 20 complete the course in 4 hrs 38 Mins and 6 seconds. Add 15%, my guess would be more, to the distance for the jibes and we see it traveled 94 miles in 278 minutes and 6 seonds. That means the average speed was over 20 miles per hour. This year if the forecast holds, we will see similar conditions with the winds at 13 - 14 mph out of the east. I will look for the first boat on Smathers Beach, Key West, around 3PM. If you do not like the 15% choose your own, In any way it is fast. Without the fudge factor, it means over 17 mph, average, for the same trip. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Some say they saw over 25 at times on the GPS.
Have fun with this, The Nacras will be close by and maybe ahead.

Re: How fast can a beachcat go? [Re: davidtilley] #140504
04/21/08 10:27 PM
04/21/08 10:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline
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warbird  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
Quote
The head over heels moment is a product of the height of the center of effort(pushing point) above the drag (of the hulls) of the sails and the force of the sails. As such, the position of the sails fore and aft is irrelevant.
Windsurfers tilt the rig for various other reasons:
Their arms arn't long enough (the can only get their weight aft by pulling the sail with them)
They would rather have lift than de-power, so canting it over makes sense.
Canting it over lowers the center of effort


The heavy-ish mast I have raked back sits back past the rear beam at the tip. This does provide a little lift and a lower centre of effort which is not so irrelevant but it pitches weight back meaning I have to get out less to provide righting moment and so makes the boat more stable at speed.
Cutting the rig down by 5 feet ( much lower center of effort) also means I have to drag far less useless metal and rag through the air as if you check the boats such as Tornadoes trying for these speeds it is clear they have far too much power and are too busy dumping in gusts to settle to boat properly.

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