I don't think so. Reg increased the skeg size from the prototype (see attached) and lowered the transom 1" to remove rocker from the planing section. Modifications were also made to the rear beam pylons and front beam. I think the annapolis tooling was given these modifications as it delayed UK production. The beam sheeted jib was changed to a much larger one that sheeted off the trampoline and the mainsail gained an extra 4" on the leach.

Cheshirecatman

warbird

some comments on your quest and zoomed pic attached

those pics of the tigershark are very interesting to a noob on many levels

some questions

1. if the TS is a scaled up PT are the beams and dolphin striker any beefier?
you mention that it is a lot lighter than your old nacra14sq. as far as i can work out the nacra 14sq is a shortened nacra16, which was a shortened nacra 5.2. which was already over engineered. so i imagine the nacra 14sq has a very solid/heavy beam and dolphin striker setup. way heavier than needed for the reduced hull volume?

the PT was almost the A class of it's day, so very lightly built. if the TS is uses the same beam and dolphin striker arrangement is it going to be strong enough to withstand the forces generated by those longer hulls at 25knot? not really an issue i guess as this is really only a 1 shot project

2. noob question here, noticed the boom has 3 hangers for the main block. seen similar on boomless mains but not boomed. when would you use the other hangers?

3. guess you'll put the lower batten in on your new sail?

4. does your TS have nacra rudders?

typos are a fact of life with keyboards and most any english speaker can read through them, but number typos are very hard for noob's

"The boat sailed faster than my Nacra 12sq....
The TS was designed on the Paper Tiger basic platform and stretched to be a 30 foot twin trap rig."

I took the second number there as a reference to the mast length, although my recollection (can't say I ever actually measured mine) is that the TS mast was 28'. Still, in the ballpark of what warbird quotes.

Little late to stick this in, but Yellow Pages has tiny hydrofoils, so not purely a planing boat. But please, no Lording it around here, plenty of that at SA

Yes, the second number was mast length and the boats are 18'. My first TS was 28 feet but this was is 9.2. The rig seems to have been made bigger as several I have heard of have the bigger rig. Some money had been spent on the up-date.
Mine came with two sails, the larger and the smaller. The mast had a section added to the top and was sleeved.
I cut the small sail down to square top and less foot and raked the mast and shortened a spare mast I had.
The boat seems to sail very well. Is well faster than my friends Hydra even with the cut down and rake.
I am pleased enough to have ordered two new sails from Whirlwind with a roller furler jib off a foil and sheeting back to the beam instead of the tramp.

Yes, Nacra 14 sq
But 30 foot is real.

The nacra is well over engineered and short in the bow. Far heavier to move around the beach but I do not know how heavy. Not as heavy as a Hydra.

But the 14sq was a great boat out at sea and very right-able and trustworthy in what is often an area where you have to look after yourself out there.

Yes, the Tiger Shark does have much bigger beams but it is just stretched as the freeboard is no great amount bigger. The hulls are well wider though. Also, it has been engineered for two big Kiwi lads and 30 knot winds so I do not expect it to fall apart.

No, they are the original TS rudders which seemed to end up pretty well generic.
Note the dagger boards which are cut away and very comfortable around the deck.

I will take Chips advice on the lower batten but I do like the lower batten on the Hydra as it makes shaping down wind a dream.

The three yokes on the boom are for separate pulleys.

Yes, I think it is all about actual results and not so much theory. But I have to get my act together in a sequence that does not leave me broken, wet and by myself.
Soon I will care about nothing but GPS and speed results.

Because that is all I actually care about. some speed in my life.

photo shows the boat to be stretched rather than simply bloated if you check against a PT.
The mast is now raked a little further and that is a fully battened Buffalo sail I thought I would try

Speaking of Paper Tigers (the 14’ variety), I think that everyone here realises that one of the most critical components governing the maximum or potential “speed” of any sailing craft, is weight, and to give an “anecdotal” example of just what kind of effect weight can make. In 1980 I was patrolling the course around the buoys of a local race at a local club in a powerboat in conditions, which had become marginal for racing in. The wind had picked up from approx’ 15 to 18 knots to a fairly constant 25 to 28 knots. A lot of cats and dinghies had already headed back to the beach but the fleet of paper tigers (about 15 of them) had continued to race. I was tracking behind the tail enders of these tigers when as one of them tacked the skipper slid across the tramp and straight into the water. I assisted and successfully had him aboard and we turned to take him back to his cat. Now when he tacked he had inadvertently cleated on his mainsheet with the sail set, as it would be for a loose reach. Well with the 150hp outboard flat out and a speed of around 40mph we never could catch his cat. It just took off, sailed flat on both hulls and outpaced us until we were forced to turn back after about 10 miles of trying to overhaul it. The owner actually got his PT back about a week later as it had been found by a fisherman on the other side of the gulf about 90 miles away from where we last saw it. Apart from a few scratches where it had apparently run up the beach and tipped over onto its side it was fine and back sailing a couple of weeks later. I have no idea just how fast that cat sailed but it was certainly going faster than us and certainly MUCH faster than it could possibly go with a sailer onboard.

[quote[
Little late to stick this in, but Yellow Pages has tiny hydrofoils, so not purely a planing boat. But please, no Lording it around here, plenty of that at SA
[/quote]

Aren't those cavitation/venting gates ?

Wouter

I have performed towing tests with some of my hulls, to correlate some drag predictions with real measurements, and have found that when there was only the weight of the hulls, ie. not ballasted in any way even round keels (U shaped as opposed to flat sterns like a paper tiger) will plane at relatively low speeds (about 8-10mph).

Gareth

So I guess this means if we really want our boats to go fast, we should stay on shore and operate them by remote control? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

oh, and i forgot my favorite sign of "you are approaching max speed" sign

around 13knots the whole rig starts singing a mournful siren's song, have generally been a little too busy on position, sheet and rudder to spare it much time, maybe later

the big orma tris must really be humming

"Erice, I wouldn't be too suprised of your top speed not being higher. Or, put in other words, 16+ knots on a Nacra 5.2 is fast! My dad and I sail a Taipan 5.7, which really is a fast cat (rated faster than F18s for instance), and we have never logged a better top speed than 19.7 knots."

I find this quite surprising, as I believe 16knots is really easy for a spinnaker-equipped beachcat in the right conditions. I don`t know the Nacra 5.2, but I believe the Taipan 5.7 should do 20knots easily in 15-18knots of wind with a spinnaker up. In defence of my theory, I have sailed my Mosquito 16ft with spinnaker at 16.4knots on GPS in 12knots of wind with crew to leeward, so I think 18knots should be acchievable on a 4,9metre cat, a 5,2m cat should go a bit faster than that, and as the cat gets bigger, it should get faster, if Playstation is anything to go by.
What I do know from windsurfing with a GPS though, is that when you approach the speed at which your craft is "maxed out" you will have to work extremely hard and possibly do a lot of modifications to extract another knot out of it. I sat on 27knots as my ultimate top speed with the board I had for two years, and could reach it almost every time I sailed, but just couldn`t beat 27.4knots, in fact I did this exact speed so consistently that I was beginning to think my GPS had a fault. I then got a faster board and broke 30knots the first time I sailed it, now I`m reaching 32 on a regular basis, but once again I am approaching the limit of my equipment.
What I also know about the sensation of sailing at 25knots is that it is going to be extremely difficult to acchieve this on any beachcat design, regardless of any marketing brochure claims. I wish Warbird lots of luck and success with his efforts though, but I think some design modifications might be necessary to get there, and possibly some large ones. I would look at T-foil rudders, and possibly adding bruce-foil type daggerboards in front of the main beam to assist in anti-dive. These could even be laminated onto the outer skin of the hull on the chined surface, but the internal hull framing would have to be beefed up to support them. The biggest modification I would look at though is to mount the rig on the leeward hull, this would get the boat sailing flatter as warbird suggests, and get his weight and the weight of the weather hull further from the rig. He could then also experiment with canting it to weather, in much the same way as sailrocket is doing (www.sailrocket.com) Perhaps the scientists on this site will have a good laugh, but I think that would get more speed out of the boat. Of course that might also fall outside of what warbird is trying to acchieve, as it won`t be a general use sailing craft anymore, in that you would battle to sail it back upwind to the start of a speed course. Either way, I`ll be watching the progress of this rather interesting project, so please keep posting your findings and results.

I just saw them described as foils in a couple of different articles, so no first hand knowledge...

"Yellow Pages Endeavour (YPE) is a Lindsay Cunningham tri-pod design. YPE could loosely be described as a proa, because it sails only on starboard tack.It rides on three hulls or pods located at the ends of three wing-like arms. The vertical wing mast is mounted on the hub where the arms meet, and is stayed by wires. The craft has eight or nine foils under the pods - three on the forward pod, three on the aft, and two or three on the crew pod. The three forward foils rotate to steer the craft."

The picture I saw showed small foils, like a T foil but oval shaped...

FYI neither the Nacra 5.2 nor the Taipan are originally equipped with a spinnaker.

Or skip remote control all together:
http://www.hackaday.com/2008/04/20/autonomous-catamaran/

I just came in from sailing my Blade with my Garmin ETrex Legend taped to the boom. I had it set for MPH, I didn't realize until after, but it showed 19.3 mph (anyone know what that is in Knots?) was my max speed. I was alone and running deep downwind in some 20 knot gusts with spinnaker pulling bows up, sitting on the tramp running on both hulls, not out on the wire on one hull. I think it might have been trying to plane. I think I have gone faster on the boat but that was all the wind I had to work with.

19.3mph = 16.77knots

Thanks Karl. I think I've gone faster but I usually don't bring the GPS unless I need it for a distance race.

Isn't it funny how SLOW 20 mph is when you are in your car crawling through a school zone and how FAST 20 mph is on a sailboat? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, in a car 20 mph is torture! But, if you were to grab hold of a car from the outside, and try to RUN with it at 20 mph, you wouldn't make it to far before you were being dragged! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I can't imagine what it's like on one of the big cats (120') going 40 knots down an 80 foot wave face in the southern ocean!! Must be a real wild ride.

to convert between knots/mph/kph with a gps is very quick. and all stored data will also switch to the new units

on an etrex go to main menu/setup/units and then change to whatever units you want to display

on your computer if you are using garmin's map management software, mapsource, you can do the same to tracks saved years ago by going to edit/preferences/units and doing the same

guess i'm a geek but i try to take my gps along on every sail. the track files are tiny and download to the computer easily.

even tracks made years ago can now be opened in the latest version of mapsource through google earth. view/ view google earth

and if converted to .gpx files, (open in mapsource and resave as .gpx) the free version of GPSaction replay will display the track files as a color coded series of speed legs with an animated triangle racing around the course

the track i made when first seeing how high the hull would fly is quite instructional to watch animated as you see the boat speed along on a reach and then start slowing without changing angle much as the hull gets higher and higher and the rig dumps air. then when it has almost stopped you see the boat do the final little twist to windward to dump the hull back in the water

when my little lake community starts it's sailing races in the summer i will put my old etrex onto a friends laser and the new one on the nacra and we will get a better idea of how our boats sail the same course in the same winds

cheap gps and free software, best $100 to spend on your boat for safety, entertainment, racing and boat understanding