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Protesting after the finish #141529
04/29/08 09:39 AM
04/29/08 09:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 145
Cheshire, UK
Simon Offline OP
member
Simon  Offline OP
member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 145
Cheshire, UK
Hi,

Let's assume two boats collide after finishing a race, and before the next sequence starts. Other boats are still racing in the first race. Are the boats that have finished subject to the Racing Rules of Sailing, and can a Protest be raised (more to the point is a protest relevant?).

In this case, I am the victim of a collision (I was stationary, the other helm was fixing a problem and not looking where he was going, both boats were solo). I am not looking for redress in terms of results, but I understand that insurance companies like you to have had a protest hearing, to assist them in establishing liability.

My situation is complicated by the fact that I was hit by a junior sailor, sailing a club-owned boat, under their insurance. The club (my club!) think that as we had both finished the race, there is no case for a Protest.

I'll ignore the irony of the situation inherent in the fact that the junior in question is my ex-crew, and that I was scheduled to be the Race Officer but had swapped duty so I could get some much needed time on the water before the Bala Cat Open this weekend, which I no longer need as my boat is now at the repairer's workshop... You've gotta laugh!

What do you think about the applicability of a Protest hearing?


Simon
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-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Protesting after the finish [Re: Simon] #141530
04/29/08 10:01 AM
04/29/08 10:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
The preamble to Part 2 of the RRS states:
Quote
The rules of Part 2 apply between boats that are sailing in or near the racing area and intend to race, are racing, or have been racing. However, a boat not racing shall not be penalized for breaking one of these rules, except rule 22.1. When a boat sailing under these rules meets a vessel that is not, she shall comply with the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (IRPCAS) or government right-of-way rules. However, an alleged breach of those rules shall not be grounds for a protest except by the race committee or protest committee.


Since the boats were not racing, its a IRPCAS situation - and a fairly straightforward insurance claim.

Re: Protesting after the finish [Re: mbounds] #141531
04/29/08 05:40 PM
04/29/08 05:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,969
Matt is 100% right. Besides that, I'm sure the protest time limit had expired before you posted here?

Mike

Re: Protesting after the finish [Re: brucat] #141532
04/30/08 03:35 AM
04/30/08 03:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 145
Cheshire, UK
Simon Offline OP
member
Simon  Offline OP
member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 145
Cheshire, UK
I have protested <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> , but I had an initial response that the club thought it need not be heard since we had both finished the race. I asked the question here as the club are not very familiar with protest procedure (i.e. no one can remember the last protest!), & I don't have my rule book with me (away from home).

Thanks for the responses.


Simon
Shadow 067
Re: Protesting after the finish [Re: Simon] #141533
04/30/08 08:23 AM
04/30/08 08:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
T
TeamTeets Offline
enthusiast
TeamTeets  Offline
enthusiast
T

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
I was told by an insurance adjuster that they are not at all interested in protest committee hearing outcomes... that they are only interested in municipal, state and federal law. They suggest that the only significant documentation would be from a law enforcement report and suggested you should file a police report for any collision with damage.


Mike, Ohio
Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
Re: Protesting after the finish [Re: TeamTeets] #141534
04/30/08 08:44 AM
04/30/08 08:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
I was told by an insurance adjuster that they are not at all interested in protest committee hearing outcomes... that they are only interested in municipal, state and federal law. They suggest that the only significant documentation would be from a law enforcement report and suggested you should file a police report for any collision with damage.


I bet you're going to get a different answer from different insurance people. The one claim I had that involved a racing incident, the insurance company was very interested in the details of the protest hearing. As the other party did contest some of the situation, they took the hearing information (not necessarily the outcome) to a maritime attorney to get his input.

One point to understand is that the organizing body's protest committee / hearing is not in place to establish fault for an incident - the only outcome of a protest hearing is as it relates to scoring of the event. PERIOD. However, the facts found from a protest hearing, which usually includes witnesses, can weigh heavily on any judgment the insurance company needs to make in a situation of he-said she-said.


Jake Kohl
Re: Protesting after the finish [Re: Jake] #141535
04/30/08 12:24 PM
04/30/08 12:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
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Well put, Jake.

Probably the main reason that the preamble is written that way is to give the RC / jury some way to maintain control over someone being a complete idiot (deliberately ramming someone). Of course, you really can't control that, and you would then be in 69-land, but I can't think of any other reason to penalize a boat (in terms of scoring) for hitting another boat between races unless it was deliberate.

Mike


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