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More IOC stuff: USA still vote down m'hulls #142547
05/08/08 02:36 PM
05/08/08 02:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
tami Offline OP
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tami  Offline OP
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Gulf Coast
Dear Petitioner

Thank you for signing the e-petition to IOC. The response has been amazing, exceeding 6000 signatures in the six months since it was started after the last ISAF Council meeting. To put that in perspective, it compares with 7200 for a really serious issue such as Troops out of Iraq. You have also been invaluable help in persuading first the RYA to take the lead, then Yachting Australia and New Zealand to follow and now a record 15 countries to make formal submissions to ISAF in only 10 days before the March 15th deadline.

UKCRA have in the last few days sent a letter to the IOC which can be found at http://www.asnr29.dsl.pipex.com/IOC_Petition_ISAF.pdf. The text to the letter is also set out below.

As Councillors gather for the next ISAF meeting this weekend, now is an appropriate time to deliver it to the IOC, with two very specific and doable requests.


1.We ask IOC remind ISAF of its 2002 Recommendations to sporting authorities on how to select Events. Our research indicates that ISAF was so used to operating as an old boys club, deciding issues by political deals, that it failed to appreciate its role as guardians of our sport, making decisions on objective strategic grounds, in this case as recommended by IOC. Table 5 on page 38 of our Report best shows how ISAF really operated, starting as a keelboat club as late as 1972, then haphazardly adding Events for every new sailing fashion until IOC said stop. Hopefully the spot-light of public exposure in this age of global communication will persuade enough Councillors to do the decent thing and include us at the May meeting. That is why we are sending copies to all 100+ IOC members. Representatives of our international class associations will also be there to lobby in person for our cause, as will Paul Pascoe, President of our newly formed International Multihull Council, which plans to affiliate with ISAF.


2. Should that fail, we ask IOC to extend the 11th Event another round, to give ISAF time to get its act together with a logical strategic plan to execute the IOC Recommendations, as suggested by past ISAF President, Paul Henderson. There are two lines of thought on this. The pragmatic approach led by the RYA is to correct the worst excess i.e. keelboats out - high-performance in. The logical start-afresh approach, represented by the French submission, is 5 x 2 i.e. five disciplines by two sexes (Windsurfing, Single-Handed + Double-Handed Dinghies, Multihull, Keelboat).


Even if we have majority support, the two-thirds requirement is a tough hurdle to jump, so there is little point in speculating what are our chances of success in May, but our campaign has been snowballing rapidly, so it is not impossible. In any event, the submission put forward by ISAF's leadership appears so legally dubious that it may be open to challenge before the final opportunity in November, which is the IOC deadline. Firstly no serious legislative body to would put forward a motion to "reaffirm" a decision already made because that would be redundant and secondly the clause to guillotine discussion of the supportive submissions without publication, let alone discussion breaches its own Regulations on the rights of its Members, unless the relevant regulations are themselves first changed, and the Executive has not put that on the May agenda.


If you have personal contact with your ISAF Councillor, please email them now, thanking those who are supportive or constructively lobbying those who still need persuasion. While ISAF refuses to publish the list of members who have made submissions, our intelligence suggests that the position is as follows: -

1. Votes in favour of Multihulls at November Meeting followed by Submissions for the May Meeting = UAE, AUT, AUS, DEN, ESP, FRA, GBR, CAY, RUS, SWE

2. Votes in favour of Multihulls at November meeting, without May Submissions = CHN, BRD, IND, JPN, PUR, SIN, VEN, RSA
3. Submissions for May Meeting, with votes against or without votes in November = CAN, HKG, NED, TAN
4. Votes against Multihulls in November / further persuasion helpful = BRA, IRL, ITA, PLN, TUR, USA

If you are a citizen of the last group, constructive personal lobbying may help persuade them, because there are indications that some are wavering. Please do so now. They may already be on their way to the meeting, but may nevertheless check their emails. Given that this is in China, the chances of getting through may be enhanced if you do not send any attachments, nor use politically sensitive words.


Many thanks
Nick Dewhirst
Chairman
United Kingdom Catamaran Racing Association




Letter to the IOC:

Jaques Rogge, President
International Olympic Committee
Château de Vidy
1007 Lausanne
Switzerland

Cc: Members of the International Olympic Committee
ISAF Council Members

7th May 2008

A PETITION CONCERNING THE 2012 SAILING REGATTA

Dear Mr. Rogge

We ask that IOC intervene to ensure that the 2012 Olympic Sailing Regatta include a Multihull Event so that it genuinely presents “the wide range and diversity of sailing” as claimed by ISAF’s President, Goran Petersson.

Multihulls represent a large branch of the sport, accounting for between a tenth and a third of global participation depending on the basis of calculation and have been part of the Regatta continuously since 1976.

However the Commission now requires that the Regatta be reduced from 11 to 10 Events. Last November ISAF chose to do this by eliminating the only Multihull Event, rather than any of the two Keelboat, two Windsurf or six Dinghy Events.

As explained in our Report, it appears that ISAF did so because multihulls are politically weakest, not least representative, least telegenic or least suitable for the Olympics. In the view of your former colleague and previous ISAF President, Paul Henderson, “The most interesting observation is to see how many MNA's are now saying that their delegates were instructed to vote in the best interest of their specific country winning medals - not in the best interest of our beloved sport. Surprise! Surprise! Holier than thou pontifications are quite hollow methinks.”

In doing so, we believe that Councillors did not vote in the “interests of the sport of yachting throughout the world” as required by Article 41 of the ISAF Constitution, because your 2002 Review of the Olympic Programme provided recommendations on how to interpret this (See Appendix 3).

In general, you recommended that “weight category events should not be allowed, except for the combat sports and for weightlifting”, yet ISAF proposes an Event for 1 Person Dinghy (Heavyweight) and against “similar events” yet ISAF proposes four Dinghy Events for Men.

Specifically you criticised sailing for “low broadcast and spectator appeal”. Your subsequent 2005 Report noted that ISAF had taken steps to increase the appeal of the sport by “introducing faster and more spectacular boats”, yet now it has taken a step backwards by completely excluding the fastest boats of all, namely Multihulls (See Appendix 3).

In addition you also provided guidance on encouraging participation by Women, yet ISAF is increasing its preponderance of Events for Men, by eliminating the only remaining Open Event, which is Multihulls.

You then also noted that “the Keelboat class are very expensive boats …. for general practice and development compared to other classes” and wrote that “if the Executive Board recommends the reduction in the number of athletes and events, the Commission believes these reductions could be made through the exclusion of keelboat sailing events”. Yet ISAF disputed this unambiguous advice.

The leadership of ISAF continues to dispute your recommendations, despite: -

• An appeal from the Royal Yachting Association on behalf of the host nation
• The recommendation of ISAF’s own expert Events Committee
• The independent opinion of the previous ISAF President
• Formal submissions from fifteen of its Member National Authorities
• Unanimous public opinion polls by different yachting journals and websites

Now it proposes a guillotine motion to its Council, which meets on 10-11th May, in order to stop further discussion and “reaffirm” its decision to oppose your guidelines, even though members have the right to place submissions on the agenda for its Annual Meeting in November.

According to a letter of 11th December 2007 to Council members by the outgoing Secretary-General, Arve Sundheim “At the Council meeting on 9 November and prior to making the decision on the ten events for the 2012 Olympic Programme, the ISAF President was explicitly asked by a Council member if there was any IOC guidance which may affect the choice of events. The ISAF President responded that the IOC guidance was to achieve universality, nation participation, medal spread and media appeal. Be assured that if there had been any specific IOC guidance which was new to the table, you would all have been advised in advance”.

We therefore ask that

• As its President did not do so, you remind ISAF Councillors of your specific long-standing guidance, published in August 2002 and May 2005.

• Should Council still exclude any Multihull Event, you postpone the reduction of Events one more time, on the basis that Multihulls would deserve to be included in the Games based on these criteria of “universality, nation participation, medal spread and media appeal”. (Appendix 2 shows what the multihull community achieves independently without ISAF support.)

You have significant influence over ISAF because it has a “very high reliance on Olympic revenues (65%) and a low percentage of its income comes from marketing and broadcasting (10%)” according to your 2005 Report. In the interests of the Olympic Spirit, please use it.

On behalf of 6000+ petitioners from more than 60 countries, including numerous ISAF sailors of the Year, Olympic medallists and other sailing champions, key organisers of our sport, influential media figures and leaders in the yachting industry (See Appendix 1).

Yours sincerely,



Nick Dewhirst
Chairman

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: More IOC stuff: USA still vote down m'hulls [Re: tami] #142548
05/08/08 03:31 PM
05/08/08 03:31 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
The combined information and letters released today dont leave ISAF Council and the beurocrats much credibility.. Will be interesting to see the outcome and if we get to see how the votes are cast this weekend. I bet ISAF will not let them leak out this time.

Re: More IOC stuff: USA still vote down m'hulls [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #142549
05/08/08 05:14 PM
05/08/08 05:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
HMurphey Offline
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HMurphey  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
Let's start calling the offices of US Sailing!!! If we all call everyday and tie up the girls in the office they are bound to tell the leadership "we are getting alot of phone calls ... the multihull sailors are watching this vote closely !!!!"

I would start w/ the membership contact!!! Then move up to the office manager!!!

So take the time and call!!! Be polite ... be nice ... but let them hear us GROWL !!!!

HarryMurphey
TheMightyHobie18/P19MX

Re: More IOC stuff: USA still vote down m'hulls [Re: HMurphey] #142550
05/09/08 07:57 AM
05/09/08 07:57 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
old hand
Mugrace72  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Can you post the number?


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: More IOC stuff: USA still vote down m'hulls [Re: Mugrace72] #142551
05/09/08 11:10 AM
05/09/08 11:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
HMurphey Offline
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HMurphey  Offline
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SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
The Us Sailing Phone #(401)683-0800 Fax (401)683-0840

Ask for "Kate": Membership Manager

She is a REALLY nice person!!! Let's give her some "NUMBERS/HEADCOUNT" to work with!!!!

If the Membership Manager sends out a E-Mail to the US Sailing delegation saying " the Rank and File members are watching this vote ... CLOSELY ... and this will negatively affect a LARGE demographic of our membership base if you DO NOT support Multihulls publically ...

We may not individually have alot of $$$$ ... but together we do add up to alot $$$$ ...

Let them hear us GROWL!!!!

And put "the powers that be" on notice.


Sail Flat, Sail Fast
Harry Murphey

Re: More IOC stuff: USA still vote down m'hulls [Re: HMurphey] #142552
05/09/08 11:17 AM
05/09/08 11:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
HMurphey Offline
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HMurphey  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
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SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
I can not post on Sailing Anarchy ...

Can someone take my post over there, please.

It's time to reach out and PERSONALLY touch US SAILING ... lets get those phones ringing off the hook!!!

Let's give them a afternoon to remember!!!!

Harry

Re: More IOC stuff: USA still vote down m'hulls [Re: HMurphey] #142553
05/09/08 12:09 PM
05/09/08 12:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
old hand
Mugrace72  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
<<<<Ask for "Kate": Membership Manager>>>>

DONE!!


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: More IOC stuff: USA still vote down m'hulls [Re: Mugrace72] #142554
05/09/08 12:18 PM
05/09/08 12:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
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windswept  Offline
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New Hampshire, USA
http://www.sailing.org/23198.php
Interesting reading on the ISAF site published on the 8th. It is in response to protests filed by the ITA.


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: More IOC stuff: USA still vote down m'hulls [Re: windswept] #142555
05/09/08 12:32 PM
05/09/08 12:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
I have an unconfirmed report that the Events Committee today voted to recommend to the Council that the November decision on 2012 Events NOT be reaffirmed.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: More IOC stuff: USA still vote down m'hulls [Re: John Williams] #142556
05/09/08 02:48 PM
05/09/08 02:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
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windswept  Offline
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New Hampshire, USA
katedaley@ussailing.org secretariat@isaf.co.uk
For those who do not have the time to place a call.


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: More IOC stuff: USA still vote down m'hulls [Re: John Williams] #142557
05/09/08 03:06 PM
05/09/08 03:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Quote
I have an unconfirmed report that the Events Committee today voted to recommend to the Council that the November decision on 2012 Events NOT be reaffirmed.

Well, I would THINK so, since the Council went against the Event Committee's recommendations in the first place.

Re: More IOC stuff: USA still vote down m'hulls [Re: Mary] #142558
05/09/08 06:04 PM
05/09/08 06:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
dave mosley Offline
veteran
dave mosley  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
You would think that with all the talk of a big cat in the AC. that they would be more likely to consider multihull's as a potential medal target. I would think it will get a big boost from this exposure, which in turn sends some pretty good sailors into cat racing, which would up our medal chances(if thats what its all about for the US)


The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





Re: More IOC stuff: USA still vote down m'hulls [Re: dave mosley] #142559
05/10/08 06:02 AM
05/10/08 06:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 7
W
Worthy Offline
stranger
Worthy  Offline
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W

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 7
I received this from Laura Baldwin this morning:


ISAF just voted not to reaffrim the November decision, meaning they accept the decision in November was wrong.

After not reaffirming they voted on whether or not to open the Men's & then the Women's Events but neither got the required 2/3rd's vote required.

Men: 21 Yes, 17 No.
Women: 21 No, 16 Yes

Aaaaand we are OUT! [Re: Worthy] #142560
05/10/08 06:11 AM
05/10/08 06:11 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
And that means ISAF will not change their decision for the 2012 olympic regatta. After reading a bit I see the president wanted, and got, a secret vote. We will not be able to hold our representatives responsible this time. Interesting that if we dont count the unanimous negative votes from the executive committee, the MNAs voted 2/3 for a reopening. The executive committee is a very interesting body within ISAF, to put it mildly..
Ref: http://www.sail-world.com/australia/ISAF-ditches-Multihull-from-2012-Olympics/44287


I guess multihullers will leave Egypt and look at creating their own future: http://multihullcouncil.com/


Re: Aaaaand we are OUT! [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #142561
05/11/08 09:15 AM
05/11/08 09:15 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
And it keeps on getting worse as the details come in. "Keep the course"..
http://www.sail-world.com/australia/ISAF-credibility-at-stake-in-crucial-Olympic-vote/44306

Re: Aaaaand we are OUT! [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #142562
05/11/08 02:58 PM
05/11/08 02:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
dacarls Offline
old hand
dacarls  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
Absolutely disgusting! Putin disguised as Goran Petersson.
And it will be a long time before I renew my membership in US Sailing.


Dacarls:
A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16
"Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
Re: Aaaaand we are OUT! [Re: dacarls] #142563
05/11/08 03:28 PM
05/11/08 03:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 266
UK
Cheshirecatman Offline
enthusiast
Cheshirecatman  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 266
UK
Just read the speech (see link) he made last year. What has happened to change the aim? Is he just a politician in the wrong job?

http://www.dartworlds.com/news/latest/isaf-100th-birthday.html

Cheshirecatman

Re: Aaaaand we are OUT! [Re: Cheshirecatman] #142564
05/11/08 05:09 PM
05/11/08 05:09 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
It gets even better: http://www.isaf.org/23276.php

My favourite is how they tell us how democratic and fair ISAF is since the Executive committee put forward the re-vote submission.
15 large MNAs demanded a re-vote while Executive did what they could to stop it, and now suddenly Executive want to bask in the glory.

Re: Aaaaand we are OUT! [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #142565
05/11/08 05:43 PM
05/11/08 05:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 502
Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia
D
Darryn Offline
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Darryn  Offline
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D

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Posts: 502
Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia
Extract from ISAF press release,
"Speaking after the Council decision, Olympic athlete and President of the International Tornado Association, Carolijn BROUWER (NED) commented, “The multihull sailors had lost some faith in ISAFs direction on the Olympic events, but after today’s decision where more than 50% of the Council did not reaffirm the November decision, it feels a little bit like an apology. There is a glimmer of hope. Listening to the debate, we are confident the multihull event will be back on the Olympic programme in the future and the multihull community will work with ISAF to achieve that objective.”"

So more then 50% vote the November decision is not good but in the next round of voting its decided not to do anything about it. This is interpreted as a "Glimmer of Hope"? I guess you had to be there to understand how no action to reinstate the multihull can be a Glimmer of Hope. Seems more like ISAF have followed the imply future contact rule of giving bad news.

Darryn
Mozzie
1782

Re: Aaaaand we are OUT! [Re: Darryn] #142566
05/11/08 07:17 PM
05/11/08 07:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
HMurphey Offline
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HMurphey  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
Some one just pissed on my leg and now they are trying to tell me that is raining

Unfortately ISAF is controled by:

OLD FARTS THAT WANT TO SAIL OLD SLOW BOATS!!!

HarryMurphey


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