Definitely take a look at your MWR program. The sailing at MWR facilities is usually underutilized. I worked at Del Mar Marina on Camp Pendleton for a number of years it was a great program. After you get through the the different classes you can take out any of their boats. The biggest boat we had in our program was an Islander 36. We had a fleet of Coronados, Cat 22's Cat 25's, Cat 27's etc. We did trips to Catalina Island. And it was all fairly priced.

No multihulls though <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I took the base commander out on a windy day on a Catalina 27 and he had a grin from ear to ear. I can't imagine what he would've done if it was a real Cat. Let's just say...if you're a punk kid working on an active duty military base it's good to have the Colonel call you by first name. It can get you out of some real jams <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I always thought it would be a good community service/ outreach for a fleet close to a military base with a sailing branch to their MWR program to do a "Try a Catamaran Day". NTC in San Diego would be perfect.

It amazes me how little known the MWR program is. I think a lot of soldiers see MWR and think of the little tent they had on the FOB in Iraq that had a warped ping pong table and a few books and magazines.

$300 for boat and trailer, sounds pretty hard to beat

i've pulled up the numbers for a few similar sized and aged boats, the kind you are most likely to find sold cheaply in the usa

Length Width Sail A Weight
Supercat 17 17'00 8'00 234 325
Nacra 5.2 17'00 8'00 220 350
Hobie-16 16'07 7'11 218 340
Hobie-18 18'00 8'00 240 400
Prindle 18 18'00 8'00 218 350

data comes from this page

http://www.multihullsmag.com/boats/boatlists/cats_up_to_20_feet.htm

seems to show the supercat17 is light and has a lot of sail, both good

here is the link to the previously mentioned ultimate catamaran buyers guide

http://www.sailingproshop.com/catamaran_guide.aspx

it doesn't seem to mention the supercat17 but the information is still good for generic checks about battens, rigging etc.

probably a good idea to join the arc forum and ask specific supercat17 buyers questions there. maybe someone has a manual they could copy for you?

http://www.aquarius-sail.com/catamarans/index.htm

be best if the seller will tow it to the water with you and rig everything, even if you don't sail. but for $300 he may not want to bother. if so spend a day trying to rig everything by yourself in the yard. you only have to be missing a rudder or the main block to add another $300 to the price to get it sailing

not sure if the supercat17 came with the "righting shrouds", would be good if it did and you want to solo a lot

post some pics if you can and do some searches on this site

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/showflat...;o=&fpart=1

Thanks for the info. I got in touch with a guy from a cat club in the area who was gracious enough to offer to go with me to check the boat out. Understandably, it was a bit farther than he wanted to go but he offered to have me over to talk cats for a bit before I went and looked at them.

I say them because I just found out that I have an uncle in-law who is willing to sell a cat and trailer for $100. When it rains it pours huh? I don't have any info what-so-ever on this one though.

I'll take plenty of pictures tomorrow.

Ok, so I took a look at both boats today. Went to see the Supercat 17 first.

Took a bunch of pictures and uploaded them to photobucket
http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b12/DangerMouse_06/Boats/

I'm not a big fan of photobucket, sorry that they are not in any particular order and that I don't know how to embed them in this forum.

First thing I noticed was that there were some cracks in the paint around where I assume would be stress points. I didn't detect any obvious delaminating there or anywhere else for that matter.

Second thing I noticed was that the tramp was a mess. It doesn't have any tears in the middle but the seams are all coming undone. I don't know whether to put it in the repair or replace category.

I apologize ahead of time for my lack of terminology knowledge. The pulleys, brackets, and wires all looked in great shape. None of the pulley wheels were chipped or binded. The wires looked fairly new, and had no freying.

Whether everything was there...unfortunately I don't know. Would have been nice to have someone there who could tell but like I said, the gentleman who had offered to come with ended up not coming because of the distance.

The mast looked ok from what I could see. I didn't see any bends, bows or dents. Again, I don't know if all the attaching hardware was there but what was there was in good shape.

The rudders were detached from the hulls. They're the type that flip up for beaches. The rope within that mechanism, along with all the rope elsewhere, needs to be replaced without a doubt.

There was some damage to one of the rudders which I took pictures of. One of the top brackets on a hull was slightly loose. I can only guess that the damage to the bottom of the rudder blade and a slightly loose top "bracket" = someone forgetting to flip the rudders up before landing on a beach. It didn't seem too serious though. He didn't know where the bar was to attach the two rudders together, and didn't know where the attaching hardware was, or the tiller. They may be buried in his storage and he promised we would find them.

There were also some cracks below where the cross members met the hull. Again, looked cosmetic to me, a layman. Neither hull flexed when I shook the front of it up and down. The seller said that the hull should be resealed at the cross members, as it hadn't been done in a long time.

Each hull had a... port that could be opened to gain access within. These were located at the back of each hull between the two rudder mounts. Below was a small drain plug. I opened the right port hole and took a picture. At first, I didn't notice the water that was sitting at the bottom. In the picture I took you can see it.

I don't know if this is a big deal and I didn't ask him about it because for some reason it didn't dawn on me until I saw the picture after I got home. Now that I think about it I was in my car, ready to follow him to his storage to look at the sails when a lawn care guy pushed the boat to mow under it. I noticed some water drain out.

I recall reading that some water is normal and ok, to a point. I don't know what that point is though.

The bottom of the boat looked ok but there were a few parts that looked like the paint had been totally chipped off. The extreme bottom had a strip about an inch wide of "paint" that was whiter than the rest of the boat and was on top of the paint. It looked like it was brushed on. I don't know if that was bondo or what. I took a picture.

I don't know if the water is from a leak in the bottom or from rain, sitting out for so long. I imagine it could be either one, or both. He said it hasn't been in the water for years. Only way to test it would be to put it in the water I would think.

What else... The trailer, is a home made contraption. It started its life as a galvanized trailer that tilted back to get boats off and on. It was then welded so that it couldn't tilt, and an arm was welded to the front for laying the mast on, and a "bulldog" hitch was welded on the front. The electric lighting needs work. Looks like the wiring is ok but the lights themselves need replacing. One tire is missing and I would have to replace both anyway, probably bearings too. He said they were "buddy bearings."

A few of the rollers are jacked up and would need to be replaced as well. Other than that, trailer looks sound. Don't think it would fall apart on the road. Welds looked ok. Arm that holds the mast is adjustable so I wouldn't have to worry about leaving the mast at the first underpass.

Finally, we went to his storage. After a very brief look found the mainsail and the bar that attached the two rudders. No "spinniker"? and no tiller. He again promised they would be in there somewhere and we could find them later, as he had to leave.

The sail seemed to be in good shape. No tearing, freying, grommits all present and accounted for. None of the battens were broken, and a small jolly roger was attached. arrrrrrrr

Thou I concentrated on the negatives, if those negatives are minor things than overall I think the boat was in good shape. If any of those things raise big red flags however...

I feel it important to mention the sellers character. As I said before, he is a friend of the family, a retired sherrif, and a great guy. He wouldn't lie to push this thing on me. There may be things that he isn't totally knowledgeable about though. He's not a guy who frequents cat forums and races and stuff. He bought this thing to take out and have fun with, then it sat for a while. He a dabbler, if you know what I mean.

That reminded me, there was not a serial plate that we could find. All we could find was the name of the boat dealer and an address and phone number.... Is this an issue?

No title either. In the state of Texas at the time that he bought it only a bill of sale was necessary. I believe the same is true today.

Post is getting long, I'll explain the second boat in another post.

I hope I haven't put anyone to sleep yet!

Second boat. Uncles boat. I haven't added any pictures of it yet.

This "SolCat" was in the back yard overgrown with vines. This thing was in pooooor condition. There had been some kind of accident. Parts of the trailer were bent and a big section of the front of a hull was delaminated and cracked.

The mast looked good. Is it possible to use it as a backup mast for whatever boat I end up getting?

Tramp looked good too. This boat has a bar down the middle unlike the supercat 17.

Trailer wasn't much to write home about either.

The sails however, were in excelent shape. Even better than the supercat's sails. Both were present as well. I had the mainsail of the supercat with me and I laid it on top of the mainsail of the SolCat. The solcat sail was about a foot shorter and a foot wider at the base. Could it be used as a backup sail for any 17? The sail says 18 on it btw.

Anyway, uncle just told me to take what I wanted, sell the rest and some day give him $100 for it. You think I can use the sails and mast?


This is pretty much where things stand. I'm sorry for my dry boring novel here. If anyone bothered to read it all, and is still awake, your input would be greatly appreciated.

$300 for the supercat and trailer, with the issues I noticed listed above. Again, I have no idea how serious our unserious thse issuse are, being a layman.

"$100 some day," for a SolCal in bad shape, but with both sails, trampoline, and mast in good shape. Possible backup parts?

What do you think?

I have a rule of thumb that says don't buy a boat that isn't ready to sail. Its one thing to want to improve a boat another to rebuild it just to get it ready to use. I'd suggest you'll be up for around $500 - $1000 beyond the purchase price before these boats and their trailers are up to any sort of usable condition.

Sorry.

I would pick up a nice used FRESH Water cat around Chicago.
These boats are used only about four months a year.

are prices for used boats in places like Chicago cheaper in the winter? Figure people use them in the summer and then sell them that winter.

Best time to buy is in the late Fall, just before the first snow. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Forget about the other boat. The SC17 seems to be in good conditions for the age and price.

A few comments:

-The SC17 did not have a spinaker, it is the jib that seems to be missing. It is smaller than the mainsail and could be rolled inside it.

- Water in the hulls due to condensation and rain are common if the boat is left unused, not necessarily a problem (but could be, see below).

-The gel coat cracks seem to be cosmetic, but you will only know for sure after disassembling the crossbeams from the hulls. Rain could be filtering through a crack in this area.

-The serial number is probably molded in the transom, close to the inspection hatch a hull. It is difficult to see if the area is dirty.

- In order to re-rig this boat and put in sailing conditions, some advice is needed (that can be obtained in this forum), plus hours (or days) of relatively specialized shoping, and hours (or days) of work.

-I estimate that you'll spend more then USD 1.500 in this boat, probably 3.000 if the jib is missing and the tramp needs replacement, or more than 5.000, if it is in worse condition than you thought and you have to buy more things than you thought, or decide to improve the boat (like buying new PFDs, trapeze harness, sailing clothes, etc.).

-If you are lucky with the missing or damaged parts, repairs are less than expected and the cost you assign to your work time is low, it is a bargain.

-If you feel that problems could worsen, you don't take pleasure from this type of work and your time is valuable, take the advice to buy a similar boat in your destination. Used boats that are ready to sail come with all the equipment, even if used, and are already licensed for the right sailing area.

My personal opinion: if this boat was sitting in my club and was offered for that price, I'd take it. If it was on the other side of the country, I would try to have a more precise assesment of the final cost and work time.

Good luck,

Excellent Post Luiz!

This reflects my second hand buying experience exactly.
You definitely have to factor in the cost of clothing, trapeze and safety gear! Especially if you are running on empty budget wise...
I'd add that Murphy's laws apply to sailboats of any type.

I'd say the chances of underestimating the repairs are exponentially related to your will to go sailing asap.

Dennis

I fear you would be getting into alot of repair work just to get on the road... the trailer needs, wheels, bearings, lights.... no tags, no title... etc.

You won’t get far without any of those items. I believe the supercat was sound once, but it is unknown at this point..

That trampoline is shot... you don’t want to fall through it raising a mast... nor when you are sailing... that’s $400-$500 to replace. All the lines are shot (and gross &#61514;)... there is another few $100.... I would guess all the rigging should also be replace... more $$$.

You could easly end up with $1000's in replacements before you get wet... that’s if you can find parts.

That cat is a steal as a replacement part boat… but probably not worth the work and money needed to get up to speed…

You also may want to consider buying some new flip flops… those look past their prime… (<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />)

You could always buy my 5.0 and be done with it! $1400 gets you nice rudders, all new rigging, trap lines, 1 summer old tramp, main and jib with windows, all new line, fx hiking stick, 2 different trailers to choose from, new sheet on main, new blocks and cleats, 2 spare main sails and jibs incase you go flying through the one on the boat!
By the way im the guy that emailed you earlier...haha

I just looked at the pictures more... the supercat has some serious looking issues under the hulls... i think you are asking for tons of work and money getting either boat in the water... i would suggest you move, and purchase a boat in ready condition in Chytown

Once you figure in the money to get it sailable, there are far better deals out there.

The bulldog hitch is cool - I thought I was the only person crazy enough to put one on a cat trailer.

That boat could be fixed by someone with knowledge, skills and lots energy.

As a newbee who wants to sail soon, forget it. The time alone to redo the hulls would be staggering. You know anything about fiberglass itch?

You didn't touch that green stuff growing on the mainsheet did you?

The green stuff? Is that why my allergies are going crazy?

Oh and back off the sandals man!! I'm going for that weathered look

@Turbocat, I thought that boat sounded familiar, heh

excelent thread. We've all been where your at looking at our first used boat. All suggestions have been insightful, but my rule for old boats ( I just bought my 11th last nite is ideally spend 500 or less then put 5-10 times that into it <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Seriously if you were staying put might be worth your effort but you better have a fare Amount of free time, a tolerant wife and some spare change. The other thought that hasn't been brought up is racing. Racing is the best way to get better at sailing fastest. The chance of your finding other super 17s to race against is slim to none. The is only 1 super 17 I know of in Florida. I would try to get hold of the local cat fleet in chicago and see what kind of boats are showing at their regattas then target on those. Hobie 16s are universal and likely best ba g for the buck all round. Hobie waves are also real fun in medium to heavy wind and fairly bombproof and great solo boats, but are usually 4 k new and not much less used. Whatever you do however, you'll be psyched and think its worth it the first moment you fly a hull on a nice close reach.

And don't forget about....

http://mwrgl.cnic.navy.mil/recreation/marina/marina.htm

It seems they actually have a "Catamarn Beach" although it looks like you can only rent monoslugs. There's a good side to learning to sail on those. Just don't get stuck in that lifestyle too long. Wisconsin is nearby and they seem to have a lot of Cat activity.