Did you see how fast the mast dove down and the boat turtled? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Man, all these guys are in trouble. It looked REALLY gusty there. You can't just jump from a go-cart to a formula 1 race car and not expect to wipe out often. Who was helming?

Ed Baird was helming from what I have been told (the worlds top ranked match racer).

All of last summer I sailed with several guys that have done/are doing the AC cup and iShares and I am sure they will get this figured out in the short term. If you spend any amount of time with sailors of this quality you can be nothing but impressed with their technical knowlege, innovation with equipment and skills. I will throw some gas on the fire for the Mono vs. Multi debate, Alinghi was leading at the top mark and the top 2 finishers were mono sailors - Yindling sailor Shirley Robinson and then the AC sailors of Team Origin driven by a former Volvo RTW winner, 49er and Skiff champion.

To me it looks like the gennaker furler opened at the head during the hoist which probably set off the chain of events (Holma saved it but was not going through with a hoist). Looks like two other boats started to have the same issue but dropped the gennakers vs completing their hoist.

For what it is worth i am not a fan of either Alinghi or Oracle.....

Wow, those are some huge tramps. Scary enough to be stuck under a beach cat tramp, imagine getting trapped under something that wide. Yikes...

Mike

Ed Baird had the helm. That mast certainly isn't sealed.

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

actually there are three classes: dinghies, multis and monos... To put more gas in the fire <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />: If you can sail dinghies you can sail all of them, if you sail cats, you still can sail monos, if you sail only monos, well... you play better golf.

Some mono sailors will use this as a proof that cats aren't safe...

Cheers,

Klaus

With the beam and weight involved...would it matter?

Yes.

- If the boat turtles, it is easier to right it without the extra weight of the water inside the mast.

- If the sealed mast stays afloat long enough to avoid turtling until the nearby RIB arrives (30 seconds?), the RIB could take the mast tip aboard and point it 45 degrees from the wind. Then a gust could suffice to right the boat or another boat could help. Anyway, it is easier to right the boat with the mast tip on the RIB then upsidedown.

I don't know the weight and leverage factors of these boats, but if I had to guess, if a RIB took the mast head aboard, it would probably be the end of the RIB. I would think there is enough weight there to swamp a RIB at the very least.

I doubt it - a RIB could take a couple of thousand pounds without swamping - and I doubt an Extreme 40 would exert that much down force at the mast tip in this situation. However, would the mast head really want to float on the surface of the water even if the mast was sealed. I think not - I suspect it would be submerged unless they had the mother of all Hobie Bobs on the tip.

Chris.

How about a gas filled ballon that inflates when the mast hits the water?????

What's up with that screecher? That big loose rag way up there certainly didn't help keep the rudders in the water. Where's the jib on an apparantly quartering breeze? Center of effort well aft, nothing in front to help pull the bow up and forward-maybe a wind shift. Notice the boat to port with the jib, scooting off after the windward mark. No problems there. Finally, wish I had just the few seconds previous...I wonder if Alinghi's helmsman was late to round up...then got caught in a nice fresh breeze after Holmatro escaped a similar fate. Big oopsie! Oh La la!

Could be. But the max load of a RIB depends on its size and I believe the one recorded in the background was big enough. The AC teams have big RIBs and chances are that Alinghi's RIB was the one recorded or was closely following the race too.

After watching the video a few times I could see the rudder blade angle on Alinghi as they are white and have a black background at just the right moment. To me it looks like the helm bears away at first then straightens the blade and Alinghi rounds up, classic mistake. If they had dumped sheet they would have saved it also.

It all happened so slowly that the helm on Holmatro could steer around where he guessed Alinghi would end up in the water.

Great boat sailed badly.

Darryn
Mozzie
1782

Seems to me the boat that turned downwind flipped and the boat that rounded up did not.
They must have some kind of buoyancy in the bows!

I think dedication to either move might have saved them. I saw the helm double pump and turn one way only to second guess and steer the other way. You usually don't get two chances and they certainly didn't.

I second that and add some details.

Alinghi pumped to go downwind, but not all the way. After its rudders were back in the water, they started to turn upwind, again, not all the way, maybe planning to return to the previous heading only.

Holmatro did about the same: bore away to avoid the pitchpole and turned upwind after control was regained. The difference is that they did not stop turning at her previous heading, they kept a constant turning rate until the boat landed.

It is interesting that immediately after Alinghi stopped its upwind turn and held course, Holmatro heeled more than Alinghi for a moment due to different centrifugal forces in the boats.

That said, I think Alinghi would have survived if the spi wasn't partly unfurled.

I'd say two things account for the different outcomes:

1) Holmatro's stronger commitment to luffing.
2) Alinghi's unfurled spi.

Quite instructive.

I doubt it - a RIB could take a couple of thousand pounds without swamping - and I doubt an Extreme 40 would exert that much down force at the mast tip in this situation. However, would the mast head really want to float on the surface of the water even if the mast was sealed. I think not - I suspect it would be submerged unless they had the mother of all Hobie Bobs on the tip.
Chris "quote"

So who picks the couple of thousand pounds of weight up and puts it in the rib?
I think once you blow it on one of these you pretty much have to deal with the consequences.
Clearly the next biggest thing on these boats is the tech to quickly sheet out without losing a finger or five.