One thing I absolutely hate on my Nacra is the rudder kick-up mech. Does anyone have a good alternative to use on a traditional Nacra rudder setup?

I have used the pull-up/pull-down dual cleat setups and they are no better. It seems like I can't get the rudders down far enough. Very fustrating.

Anyone have ideas?

I've been very happy with my Nacra pivamatic rudder pull down system on both the Nacra's I have owned. I can always bottom out the rudder and it stays put and only comes up when striking something solid (a large jellyfish can sometimes release them). The only mod's I've made is to add a lawnmower style pull handle to the end of each line. Can you describe exactly what is happening? Maybe we can figure out what the difference is.

I've seen some folks put a 2:1 purchase on their pull downs but it takes a lot of line. Catsailor sells a one line kit that will pull both rudders down with one pull (I've never seen this in action but I believe you loose the function of the pivamatic).

The cleat can be very sensative to the type of cord you use - the cheap stuff works best in my opinion - I use 1/4" rope from Lowe's for the rudder pull downs but it's the only place on my boat I use this line. Perhaps your castings are bolted too tightly to the rudders? The rudders should swing freely in the castings - I use large plastic washers (also available on catsailor) to shim up and provide a bearing surface between the casting and the rudder instead of cranking the casting tighter to the rudder.

Welp, I have the rudders swinging freely. I have the plastic shims in the rudders. I installed the pivot cleats. I did replace the shock cord, but then removed it after fustration and put on a pull-up line.

I completely agree that the pivot cleat does not take some types of rope well. The best thing I have used on the pull-downs is Marlow pre-stretch 3/16". Glad to hear someone else goes to Lowes for some of their boating needs!

It seems like it is very hard to steer compared to other boats. I think it is due to the rudders gradually creeping out as I sail. I periodically check them and they are not as far down as possible. I know what you are talking about with the remote rudder pull-down. I have not seen it either. It was supposed to be used a lot in Australia, but when I was there last year, I didn't see it on one cat.

I had two Nacras in succession; both of their rudder pull-down lines slipped, and I stopper-knotted both of 'em right at the front of the Piv-Matic. They both kicked up fine, but stopped creeping. Just my quick-cheap-n-dirty solution.

sail fast
ex N 5.O
ex N 5.5u

Is the rudder pull down line threaded OVER the Pin?

Is the adjuster screw at the bottom of the casting out all the way?

I have also heard of people re-drilling the pivot hole, but I didn't have to do this on my 6.0. The Aussies rake the rudders under the boat which should give much lighter helm.

Hope this helps.
Dave

I used to have similar problems as well, and did hate the system too.

Before I was sailing my Nacra 6.0 I owned a Dart 18 and I must say they do have the perfect system.

I solved the Nacra Rudder Problem by replacing the lines inside with the original ones (bought from the official distributor in Europe) and although the waters we sail in are not very deep. (we often hid the ground ) it is working perfect for me.

This summer I took the picture below at a marina, did not have the chance to speak to owner and ask him if it works.

Pitchpole Dave: Yes sir, it is over the pulldown pin. The rake adjuster is set to have the rudders well under the boat.

Thank you for the pic. I bet the cam cleat works much better. I found a piece of harken gear that works a lot like that.

Flounder,
Like you, I had a love hate relationship with the nacra rudder system. It has the advantage of extreme simplicity, the disadvantage is the dificulty in getting it to stay in the correct position.

Lets start with the basics. If it is a Nacra 6.0 we are talking about, the first thing you should do is redrill the rudders. Fill the pivit hole in the rudder with west systems and microballons. Redrill the pivit hole aprox 1 pivot hole diameter farther towards the front of the blade. This allows you to balance the helm by toeing the rudders much farther under the boat.

Second, Replace the plastic clam cleats on the pivomatics. They cost about 3 $ each. Just drill out the rivits in the old ones and reuse everything else. Make sure the rivit that sticks up through the cleat is not too long or the cleat won't work.

Third, consider changing to a 2:1 mechanical advantage for the kick up mechanism. This lowers the load on the line in the cleat by a factor of 2.

Fouth, experiment with lines. You want a soft spun knoby polyester line with moderately low stretch. Generaly I find 1/4" is best.

The last thing you can try is powercleating. To do this, snap the pivimatic in the up position. Next pull the rudder pulldown line all the way (rudder in the down position). Lock the line in to the clam cleat, then snap the pivimatic down onto the rudder arm. At this point the rudder should be solidly locked down.

The bottom line is the Nacra rudder system can be made to work reliably if you try. I like it because I can fix any part of it easily and I can lock the rudders 1/2 way down when sailing over sandbars and the like.

As far as other rudder systems go, I think Dart made the best rudder systems I have ever tried.

Eric Anderson
Nacra 6.0
Hobie 14
DN 5193

Years ago, I was directed to a link of the St. Simons web site. There, they had some good pics of nacra rudder mods.

I developed my own largely based on this. I know others have done the same.

Advantages to the uphaul line are: you don't loose all helm when they kick up some, and, the bungy doesn't pull it away from the casting while underway, loosing your rake.

Eric's procedure about the power lock is the ONLY way i put my rudders down. Put the downhaul line in the cleat with the pivmatic aoubt 1-2 inches from being locked, then lock it down. Otherwise, it will ALWAYS creep some, loosing that precious rudder rake.

When landing onto a shallow, I pull the pivmatic up by hand, and the rudder still stays down because no bungy. Then as it hits bottom, it gently pivots up, NOT scraping the surface of the rudder off on the sandy bottom!

I trhought those stock cleats were called
"jam cleats", b/c the line jams into them.

Todd Bouton
N6.0na+

the p.o. of my 5.8 installed an "aussie" system. it does not kick up but can be locked down from the front of the tramp on either sides. let me know if you would like some photos.

photos please!

I would love to see any pics you might have on the remote rudder pulldown system.

When I got my 6.0 from a friend who's also a rigger by trade, he had that style system on the boat.

It was the FIRST thing I took OFF the boat!!!!

Bad system, 2 good reasons:

1. when rudder is in downhauled postion, this system doesn't rotate with the rudder and casting. Eventually the downhaul line bores it's way into the front of the rudder halves at the OEM lamination where it's put together at the factory.

2. Any obstructions put a great deal of stress on the system, eventually popping the line out of the cam cleat in front on the front beam- YOU HOPE!, more like rudder/casting/transom failure!

IMHO, I would and do use the system previously desribed.

If you want pics, I think Murrays catalog has one, they sell them.

Quit mucking around with the stock system and just put something else on. I loved my G-Cat system. Extrememly simple and easy to use, but the housings snapped when a storm flipped the boat over on the beach.
I put on a Dotan Sampson 25 system, which does steer the boat well but it really only has three positions- all the way up, all the way down, and stuck halfway in between. Also, it can be difficult to lower one rudder without raising the other. I don't really like the system that much.
My friend put a Hobie system on his Prindle 18-2 and absolutely loves it. That will be my next rudder system when I can afford a new one. My Dotans would be great for dingy sailors.

You guys are going way to deep into this . If the problem is to solve the slight release or slippage of the rope in the pivmatic cleat, I solved that problem on my 6.0 by simply adding a Hog ring to the line at the tightest point on the rope possible. I actually made the rings from stainless welding wire that I already had. This made them of a lighter weight and smaller. They passed easily through the cleat fairlead and didn't get hung up. When pulling down the rudders, I simply pulled the rope and made sure the ring rested on the face of the cleat.
Results, No more slippage and the rope was easier and faster to pull out of the cleat. Hope that helps

I also had a problem with my Nacra's rudder down haul line "creeping...losing the rudder rake. My simple solution was to use a bit of whipping line, placed right where it would jam in the jam cleat, when the rudders are fully down.

The whipping line (like one would use to whip the ends of sheets, down-hauls, and halyards) is wound around the rudder down haul a few wraps and then I use a sail maker’s sewing awl to sew a locking stitch through the down-haul line.

The approach simply increased the downhaul's diameter at the one small spot that is critical to help jam the line in the jam cleat.

Works well, it's cheap and fast ...

Good luck

Tom H.

Todd is correct. The St. Simons Island Surf Sailors have some awesome photos of mods for your rudder system. I sail primarily off the beach and I have done all but a few of these mods. I still use the bungee however. Pressing a piece of PVC into the rudder is a must if you are power cleating or you will eventually split the rudder $$$$$.

Re-drilling and moving the pin that the down line moves across holds the rudder down nicely (it will not creep back up) . There is a pic of this on the "Surf Sailors" site as well. All of there mods are bullet proof. I no longer have ANY problems thanks to just a couple of their mods.

Here is their link: http://darientel.net/~surfsail/

Good luck.

AJ
Nacra 6.0 EX w/spin (Blow Me)

I resurrected this older thread because I'm having some of the same issues and I'm curious if these solutions still apply. I like the sound of raking the rudders "Aussie Style" but cannot locate any diagrams or pictures of that. Would it involve filling the old pivot point and redrilling one hole diameter farther forward?
Also upon closer examination of one of my rudders I am missing the plastic slotted setscrew (screws into the bottom of the casting) that adjusts the rake. WHERE CAN I FIND A REPLACEMENT? I've looked everywhere locally.

Thanks
Greg

I have a Nacra system on my Mystere. I still have the plastic cleats but whipping the area where the pull down line sits works great. I'm not using the Nacra blades right now but the holes have been moved forward to allow them to kick under. One other nice thing about kicking them under is any grass that gets caught on the blades works up and seems to clear itself fairly well. I don't have the set screws. I small pieces of carpet that I contact cement in down there. If I want to rake the blades back I can add another piece right over the top of the other one. It also cushions the blade as I tend to pull hard so they slam down and if it's a little sloppy there you can put a slightly wider piece that will snug the blade when locked down. The only other thing I did was run the pull up line internally in the steering arm.

Hi Greg,
You probably don't need to replace the screws because they will rake the rudder back, and you want it forward. Fill the pivot hole and drill new holes about 3/4"-1" further forward.