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Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: gree2056] #146951
06/28/08 02:40 AM
06/28/08 02:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Arizona
AzCat Offline
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Arizona
I am getting ready to set up a spin on my 5.7 very soon. I have all of the blocks, spin, Haulyard, sheet, and hoop, and am waiting for my pole this week. Can you add a pic of the attachment of the pole to the main beam? and another of the retreval line attachment to the spin. or an explanation of how this works. My spin has two patches for retreval, I havnt got a clue how this is set up. I have an end pole snuffer similar to yours, how is the retreval line run at the back of the bag, did you run it up thru the tramp? Maby put a grommet in the tramp?
I will have a ton of questions once I get started.
Great post!


Auscat MKV 444 A class
NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: AzCat] #146952
06/28/08 09:05 AM
06/28/08 09:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
gree2056 Offline OP
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gree2056  Offline OP
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Norman,OK
AZCAT,
I will try and get the pictures you requested but for now I will just describe it.

The attachment point on the main beam is pretty simple. Mine basically consists of a plate or stainless with an inch long pin sticking off it. That is rivited to the main beam directly in front of the mast step. Then the pole has a hole at the end that you simple stick onto the pin. The tension of the bridals holds it on the pin. I had trouble picturing it at first also, but it is really simple once you see it.

As for the snuffer line.
I did not run mine through the tramp, it comes out the end of the bag just in front of the front crossbar. Then it runs up through an eye strap i have mounted on the front beam. Mine is a continuous halyard and dousing line so after what was mentioned above it loops and runs through the halyard cleat and up the mast.

If you have an end pole snuffer you are going to run into the same problem that I did when you douse. All the spinnaker is going to try and bunch up at the end of the pole and you will never get it to douse correctly. To fix this problem after I have lead the dousing line up through the two patchs in the spinnaker I tied a knot in the dousing line between the two patchs. This causes part of the spinnaker to go in before the rest. It made it alot easier and has fixed that problem.

I will work on getting you those pictures.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: gree2056] #146953
06/28/08 10:09 PM
06/28/08 10:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 25
J
Jbarth13 Offline
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Posts: 25
How do you hoist the spin solo- use one hand? What about playing the main during that procedure?

Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: Jbarth13] #146954
06/29/08 01:03 AM
06/29/08 01:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
gree2056 Offline OP
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gree2056  Offline OP
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Norman,OK
The Hoist (I am no expert this is what works for me)
After rounding the windward mark I make sure that i am clear of traffic and if needed will jibe to get clear of traffic if needed.
Then I head straight downwind or close to it and travel all the way out with the main still sheeted hard to provide support for the mast. At that point I move forward and towards the middle of the tramp, this puts me in a good position to pull the halyard. Also I can tuck the tiller extension under the back on my knees which allows me to hold the boat at the course I want. Then I hoist the sail, it only takes about 4-5 seconds.
Once it is to the top I move back and begin trimming, I worry about the spinnaker before i get the main and jib back in tune just because it is the powerhouse downwind and i feel like it gives the most immediate speed. Once it is trimmed I trim the main and jib,
the main you have to keep sheeted hard to support the mast, but you will be surprised that is what the sail wants because the speed the spin adds will bring the apparent wind way forward. So basically the sail is in upwind configuration other than I release the outhaul to provide extra depth to the sail and stay traveled out based on the angle I am running.
The jib also will be trimmed in pretty tight, but not quite to upwind trim, just watch the tell tales, I just get it close and then don't worry about it, the spinnaker is the only sail I trim going downwind.
To depower and power-up I either bear-away or head-up. That was one of the hardest things to learn at first, that I had to bear away to depower and I have found it is much faster to bear way and use the extra speed from a puff than to release the spinnaker which instantly kills you speed.

With a crew I work the traveler and he trims the spin downwind, it is alot easier and more fun to be honest, the two of you just have to be in sync to get good speed out of the boat.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: gree2056] #146955
06/29/08 01:07 AM
06/29/08 01:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
gree2056 Offline OP
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Norman,OK
On another note, I raced my Nacra 5.2 with the spin this past weekend and ended up taking second in a small regatta on Lake Hefner.

Downwind when the wind was blowing between 10-12 my crew and I were beating two farrier F28 trimarans, we could easily pass them downwind and sometimes hang onto the lead upwind. We beat one of them over the line every race and the other was never very far ahead and we would have beat him one race had we known where the finish line was.... Long story

I am just starting to learn what the boat can do under spin, so we will see but for now I am happy with beating a couple of boats that are worth about 150 times what my 5.2 is worth.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: gree2056] #146956
06/29/08 02:05 AM
06/29/08 02:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Arizona
AzCat Offline
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Arizona
So does the dousing line just run through the spin at one patch, run to the other patch and tie off on the other side? How is it attached to the spin?
My pole should be here this week and I can see how the back end is set up before trying to figure out how to attach it to the main beam. Hopefully it is as simple as you describe.


Auscat MKV 444 A class
NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA
Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: AzCat] #146957
06/29/08 09:24 AM
06/29/08 09:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
gree2056 Offline OP
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Norman,OK
The dousing line runs through the tube/bag under the pole then out the opening and up through one patch then the other. Like I said I have a knot tied between them so the spin comes into the bag in two seperate bunchs rather than one big one. I have had to adjust where the knot is alot to get it right, but that is something you will just have to test.

I will be rigging my boat Tuesday so I will try and get the pictures then. I will take more detailed pics of alot of the spinnaker rig.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: gree2056] #146958
06/30/08 08:25 AM
06/30/08 08:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 144
Near SLC, Utah
tomthouse Offline
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Near SLC, Utah
I'm installing a spinnaker on my 474 Freestyle after obtaining it after the former owner of the spinnaker broke oen hull of his boat in half at the fromt beam.

I'd guess a spreadere bar installed under the bridle may have been needed to prevent the catastrophic faliure.

Do you guys think such a spreader bar is important for most beachcat spinnaker installations...?

Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: gree2056] #146959
06/30/08 07:28 PM
06/30/08 07:28 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 18
Seabrook, Texas
Nacra477 Offline
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Seabrook, Texas
Gree,

Awesome information!!!. I'd do thank you for taking the time. I have spoke with Mark from the Cathouse and he has a I-17 midpole system he is going to sell me. Could you explain if this system is good or bad for the 5.2 and why.

Attached Files
149988-1497065195_l.jpg (86 downloads)
Last edited by Nacra477; 06/30/08 07:31 PM.

Kris and Erin "Bottoms Up" Nacra 5.2 #477 Seabrook,Tx
Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: gree2056] #146960
06/30/08 07:56 PM
06/30/08 07:56 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 18
Seabrook, Texas
Nacra477 Offline
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Seabrook, Texas
Quote

[Linked Image]


Gree can you also explain where or how we make the bridles for the spin pole(forestay and front hull attachment points), also did you drill the front of your hulls or tap them for a fitting?? Did you also have to reinforce the hulls or the spreader bar. Are you still running the original single through or upgraded spreader bar?

Here is what Im looking to put on.
[Linked Image]

Here is what I have now.
[Linked Image]


Would this be easier via PM?, Just thought others might like to see the questions being asked so you don't get multiple of the same type

One more thing can someone please explain with a midpole system when the spinnaker is in the snuffer how does the bottom get pulled to the end of the pole when raising; is this done with a separate halyard/douse line?

Thanks again,

Attached Files
149994-Rigginup.JPG (50 downloads)
Last edited by Nacra477; 06/30/08 08:53 PM.
Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: Nacra477] #146961
06/30/08 11:06 PM
06/30/08 11:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
gree2056 Offline OP
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gree2056  Offline OP
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Norman,OK
Okay, lots of questions to answer....

1. Would the midpole snuffer work well for the 5.2.... honestly I have no idea. I would think it might be tougher for solo sailing because you have a tack line that pulls the tack (front corner) of the spinnaker out to the end of the pole rather than it already being there.

2. As for the bridal supports for the spin pole, I did drill the bows and refill them with epoxy and then rerilled a smaller hole. Then just tied a figure 8 knot on the backside of the hull and a loop of any high tech low stretch line on the inside. The bridals are all just a low stretch line, I am not sure what it is, it came with my pole and works very well. To tighten it down each time I have a truckers hitch tied in the line and can really crank down on it.

3. My hulls are reinforced, when my decks were off this winter I added bulk heads, and extra stringers. Plus I have an extra set of hulls if I break one.

4. I originally had the the older style mast and i feel like it would work just fine. I ran the spin on it or a while. But now I am running the newer style mast, and it is working very well... but I have no clue whether it works better than the old one.



Nacra477, I hope that your pole you are getting works well, i think it should the midpole snuffer shouldn't be to hard to figure out and I have heard that you can still rig it up as a single line to pull but it would be more complicated.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: Nacra477] #146962
07/01/08 08:13 AM
07/01/08 08:13 AM

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Quote


Here is what Im looking to put on.
[Linked Image]


Holly Mackerel what a HOT cat~!!! Looks just like mine! Oh yea, it is mine <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />....

A few suggestions.... you may want your basket about 1 foot further out.... this will help avoid your spin halyard from getting twisted up with your jib when furling (or unfurling).


I get around this by tying a slip knot in the retrevial line (on deck)once it is all the way in the bag. The grommet in my tramp grabs this knot and stops the line. Then i can pull the halyard very tight and take out any slack, but it is 2 extra steps that would be avoided by moving the basket out more. I may move it one day... but that requires drilling more holes in my pole... and adding new weak points for the fiberglass to break.


You MAY want to angle your basket downward to reduce windage.. but that means you can only drop your spin from 1 side... i currently can drop on either side.

Also… a note about your retrieval line… I used to have 3 lines: a tack line, a halyard and a retrieval line… I now have a continuous halyard / retrieval line. It saves me a lot of hassle as my retreval would always have a knot in it when raising and cause a jam and or my halyard would get a knot in it during dousing.. I always had to throw a line in the water to stretch it out before I could raise/lower my spin. I ended up getting 85’ of real thin line and ran it as both halyard / retrieval line. There are 2 small blocks and a ring on my tramp that I run the lines through to keep it from jamming up.

Below is a friends tramp with the same set up. You can see 1 small block in the middle attached through a hiking strap grommet. The 2nd block (hidden) is at the end of the strap and the ring is on the other strap end. For some reason the ring works better than a 3rd block. This was copied from the Tornado setup.

[Linked Image]


Last edited by andrewscott; 07/01/08 09:01 AM.
Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: Nacra477] #146963
07/01/08 08:55 AM
07/01/08 08:55 AM

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Quote
can you also explain where or how we make the bridles for the spin pole


I had my local shop create short stays ( with very light cable) about 1 foot shorter than needed and i use line to tie off to the pole (with a rolling hitch knot). this way i can adjust the amount of pre-bend.

Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: ] #146964
07/01/08 03:48 PM
07/01/08 03:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Naples, FL
why is the pole so high? It looks like the foot of the jib is pretty far up there... Wouldn't that increase the instability?


Jay

Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: waterbug_wpb] #146965
07/01/08 04:01 PM
07/01/08 04:01 PM

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the pole is high because i am running a smaller spin (F-18) and the cut of the spin determines the placement of the pole...

The jib is furled so you cant actually see the foot location in that pic...

not sure if this helps but here is a pic of the same boat with the jib out
[Linked Image]

Attached Files
150117-foot.jpg (53 downloads)
Last edited by andrewscott; 07/01/08 04:02 PM.
Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: ] #146966
07/01/08 11:04 PM
07/01/08 11:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
gree2056 Offline OP
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gree2056  Offline OP
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Good and bad news, the spin rig for the 5.2 I run handles very well in big air and doesn't break anything. But you can pitchpole, and when it happens it goes fast.

Tonight in a Tuesday night series on Lake Hefner I rounded the top mark and headed for the reaching mark while pulling the spin up. Girlfriend was trimming, the bows dug in hard once but popped up and then they dug in again but there was no return. Talk about a mess, spinnaker and lines everywhere in the water. But we got her righted and raced the next race.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: ] #146967
07/04/08 03:15 AM
07/04/08 03:15 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 18
Seabrook, Texas
Nacra477 Offline
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Seabrook, Texas
Guys thanks for all the info, andrescott sorry for posting your pic but I really like the way you have set yours up and was trying to show how i would like to set mine up!! I am going to go with the SNU Snuffer system, 1.5" pole from Murrays, and theCatSailors Sheeting and Halyard Packages.. How do you know when to pre bend or to not? Also I'm buying my spinnaker sail from Whirlwind for a 5.2, should I tell them anything special or is this how i know how long to make my pole? Sorry for all the question new to the spinnaker side of things.

How do you know how high or low you run your pole under the main bridal and forstay and why?


Kris and Erin "Bottoms Up" Nacra 5.2 #477 Seabrook,Tx
Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: Nacra477] #146968
07/06/08 06:22 PM
07/06/08 06:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 364
Andrew Offline
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Andrew  Offline
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Posts: 364
I rigged a kite on a P-19 a few years ago, and on a Nacra 5.5u a few years before that. Your gear sounds fine; I started with a kit from (then) Sailing Pro Shop that included a 12' carbon pole, sheets, halyard, and blocks. Prebend? Always. When you pick up the front of the boat by the tip of the pole, the pole should not go straight, let alone invert. As for height of pole tip, remember the lower you pull it, the greater the side loads on your hulls. I used a really long pole on the 19 (I had a big kite) and never had the lines break or pull out.
Good luck


Andrew Tatton Nacra 20 "Wiggle Stick" #266 Nacra 18 Square #12
Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: gree2056] #146969
09/25/08 09:36 PM
09/25/08 09:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Arizona
AzCat Offline
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AzCat  Offline
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Arizona
Hey, thanks a million for this post. I finally got the spin rigged on my 5.7 and followed this post to do it and it basicaly went up without a hitch. had to re-rout a couple of lines but never had to de rig. I had the GPS on and the second downhill i clocked 19 mph.
I have been leaving the spin in the sock and leaving everything attached except the lines that go down from the hoop to the bows. I use those to hang the pole from the stowed mast. I then take a small tarp and wrap it around the hoop, pole and sock and tie it up fairley snug. I travel about 40 min. to lake pleasant and in route it doesent move much. is this going to put holes in my spin?

Is there anyone else that is this lazy and dosnt flake the spin? Is this a big NO NO?

Also, I am having a little problem snuffing. I have an end pole snuffer and a 2 patch spin. its like stuffing a basketball up a mosquitos a**. I am thinking of tying a peice of 1/8" dyneema to the lower patch and lead it up to approx. 1/2 the distance from the lower patch to the upper patch less 12"-14", and somehow tying or splicing it into the dousing line.
Upon dousing, this would pull through the lower patch and end up pulling the lower patch into the sock 12"to 14" before the upper patch. has this been tried? are there better ideas out there/
It seems that I saw a post with pics a couple months ago of a way to do this but I cant find it through the search. seems like it incorporated a small plastic ring attached to the lines somewhere.


Auscat MKV 444 A class
NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA
Re: Nacra 5.2 Spinnaker Pictures and write up [Re: AzCat] #146970
09/26/08 08:11 AM
09/26/08 08:11 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 99
Chicago, IL
Krisu13 Offline
journeyman
Krisu13  Offline
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Posts: 99
Chicago, IL
When you leave your spinnaker in the bag it will get wet when rains.

Wet spinnaker + time = new spinnaker soon.

Also, UV if your spinnaker has any colors they will fade. It happen to my spinnaker but it was a bitter anyway.

Kris


I20
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