A big problem. After sailing in rough seas for a few regattas.....oops.... the left shroud slipped out of the swage fitting at the top of the mast. We de-masted in some very serious conditions. We were rescued before drifting into the surf which would have done some major damage to my boat and crew, my wife. The swage must have been improperly installed!!!!

In 22 years of sailing on a P16, P19, and H20 this has never happened (we usually sail in the ocean in 2 to 4 foot seas).

I was very lucky this time and the total damage to my boat was not to bad. My fore stay attachment bar was bent beyond safe repair and my traveler car was bent. I can most likely hammer the traveler car plate back into usable shape but the fore stay has to be replaced. Very luckily there was no damage to my sails either.

Stephen

Pic 2

Stephen

Pic 3

Stephen

Sorry to hear about the problem, the risks you were exposed to and the damage! Not much fun to have a swage come apart. Watching the swages is probably good advice for all kind of boats, not just Blades. You never know! Some are known to put two swages on instead of just one. Sailing with terminals on the end of the wires is not better, trust me on that. We have had forestays and sidestays bust on us, and that was supposed to be really high quality stuff. I think you can check swages and make a call on how they do, but the end terminals are impossible to inspect. I even tried running them through a digital x-ray machine, but we broke our forestay in the terminal at the scandinavian championship anyway.

when I redid the rigging for my HT I double swaged .
In the end, I trust eye splices on high tech line more than the swages.
Interesting the side stay let go... there is more load on the forestay. Was your rig loose at all?

The plate on the traveller should be possible to bend back into place with no large side effects? If you dismantle the traveller wagon, take care not to loose the balls and use locktite on all screws! I have learnt those lessons..

I would not write off the forestay fitting yet, but wait to hear what the guys here think. I would definately scrap the rest of those stays though.

forget the adjusting plate on the forestay. My boat didnt even come with one. Use a piece of 7/64 or 1/8 spectra instead. Less weight.. actually easier to thread. Stronger too....

Terminals can be tested by applying tension, I use a hydraulic ram at work but can also use mainsheet system with some extra purchase, test to safe working load. Terminal manufacturers also specify a crimped Outside Diameter. Dont mix imperial or metric terminals and wire for obvious reasons.

Swages should have enough wire returned through the swage to allow the wire to birdcage, cannot pull back through the swage then, only a small amount is needed. 3mm precrimp works fine.

From the pics, the swages used aren't as long as the ones I prefer to use on that size wire. Suggest they all be replaced after one has failed.

I only post on this F16 forum as this is a safety issue and I can contribute, no interest in starting a fight.

Darryn
Mozzie
1782

Have we really come that far, how sad!

Thanks for an insightful and good post.

Stephen, wouldnt this be a warranty item?

Hi Stephe,

Sorry to hear that. Are your shrouds 3mm? On my new boat I have only 3mm as well and I think that I will change to 4mm. What happened to you, is what I always expected to happen, if you sail a boat double handed and the shrouds and stays are only sized for single hander usage. Thanks for sharing your expierence.

I agree with the comment about eye-spliced lines, however shrouds and stays from synthetic fibres would be quite thick? Maybe trapez wires, could be 3-4mm dyneema.

Cheers and good luck with repairs,

Klaus

Im confused as to the "starting a fight argument"..
Anyway the advice is sound.. thanks

YIKES! Sorry to hear about your misfortune. That must have been stressful to say the least. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> The next set I order will be double swaged! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Darry,

You are free to post whatever and whenever you want on this forum (within limits of normal taste of course).

There are no rules in this respect.

You may even express controversial opinions as long as you are prepared to be responded to in kind.

End of the story is that there are no regulations in place that ban anyone from posting here short of sex adverts, obvious falsehoods and other such stuff.

I know some are quick to screech censorship in relation to the forum but that still doesn't mean that this accusation is true or that the moderators are working of any official policy in such spirit.

Wouter

3 mm dyneema (500 kg break strength, not any of that imitation stuff) will work perfectly. I (and friends) have been hanging off those lines for almost a decade now, no problems whatsoever yet.

I too use 4 mm stays and when I'm present while these are made I ask for double "swaging", just to be sure.

Wouter

Stephen,


I'm sorry to hear about your mishap.

Indeed the sidestay is alot less stressed then the forestay and I guess you were just unlucky in the sense that that individual swage was not sufficiently well made.

I hope everything else will sort itself out and you can get back on the water soon.

Wouter

Ok, got the message.

I'm not a Blade owner, it pays to be cautious when commenting on a issue in a class that I am not a member of.

Darryn
Mozzie
1782

I would recommend going with terminal style fittings and lose the nicopress swages. Even if nicopress is correctly installed or doubled up, you will get galvanic corrosion on the wire strands. My experience is 3-4mm nicopress needs replacement every 2-3 years in a marine environment to ensure safety.

I've run same wire at terminal fitted much longer. These days I run Dyform wire with terminals...though more upfront cost, they seem to go forever (less surface area on the wire strands therefore lower oxidation rate).

Mike, dyform with terminals dont last forever either in my experience. We have broken one forestay we thought was OK at the time. I have also seen sidestays break, usually due to corrosion inside ther terminal.
That is part of the beauty of synthetic stays (avoiding the UV issue), you can inspect them and see what is going on with them without special equipment.

Nothing is certain when it comes to rigging - I've had a week old roll swaged terminal fracture completely in half!

I'm old school though and I prefer the nicopress type fittings as they're relatively easy to inspect and cheap to replace when suspect <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />