Checking to see if any of these cars could effectively haul a cat/trailer. This will be a disassembled cat, so the width of the trailer will be around 7 feet, not the 8'6" like the "normal" cat trailers.

I guestimate the trailer, cat, and equipment will be around 900-1000 lbs. max.

Here's the choices:

Chevy Aveo - 103hp - 107 ft. lbs. torque
Kia Rio - 110hp - 107 ft. lbs. torque
Toyota Yaris - 106hp - 103 ft. lbs. torque
Honda Fit - 109hp - 105 ft. lbs. torque

I don't expect to have any great acceleration or fuel economy, but it would appear there is enough horsepower to haul something like this..

Are there any other considerations for these vehicles? Enhanced engine/transmission cooling? Bigger brakes? Nitrous? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

A-Cat with trailx trailer no problem.

N20 with a galvanzied trailer... hmmmm...

is 1 horse power really the equivalent of 1 horses strength?

Centerfold boy,

By "trailex" trailer, are you referring to an aluminum type trailer?

It's for a T boat. WOrking on building something, so I guess I have flexibility in materials and design.

From Wikipedia... I learn something every day..

[color:"blue"]The term "horsepower" was coined by the engineer James Watt (1736 to 1819) in 1782 while working in the performance of steam engines. This occurred while using a mine pony to lift coal out of a coal mine. He conceived the idea of defining the power exerted by these animals to accomplish this work. He found that, on the average, a mine pony could pull (lift by means of a pulley) 22,000 foot-pounds per minute. Rather than call this "pony" power, he increased these test results by 50 percent, and called it horsepower i.e. 33,000 foot-pounds of work per minute [/color]

yes, they should work. No reason they shouldn't. think about having 4 other 250lb dudes in the cars, the car would still be ok, right?

Correct, aluminum type.

Horsepower is only one factor to consider when selecting a vehicle for towing. I think a vehicles weight, breaks, transmission, etc. also needs to be considered. If I were to try to tow my N20 and galvanized trailer behind a small car with sufficient horsepower, I may end up with the "tail wagging the dog" the first time I tried to stop of go around a corner.

That's kind of what I was thinking, although I doubt seriously that four 250lb dudes could fit in these little shoeboxes.

Most people call these cars "speedbumps" around here. $4.00 gas? nobody cares around here. Ferraris only get 9 mpg anyway. Bentlys get about 12. What do Escalades get?

JW was telling me there is a guy in CA that uses a Mini Cooper to drag his boat around. I can't remember if it is a T or an A.

Mike Dobbs have hauled his Tornado on an alu tilt trailer behind a Morris Mini. He did not mention any trouble.

We trailed our Tornado extensively with lots of gear behind a Ford Focus station wagon with a 1.6litre engine. No worries, just a bit slow going uphill.

Just watch out for local regulations on how much you can tow with a small car. There might be some legalese there.

T on a tilt trailer, Mike Dobbs I think. He had a pic on here at 1 time

I tow a H16 on an oversized galvanized trailer (combined weight about 720 lbs without gear) with my Maza Protege without any problems. The cars you listed here are a bit smaller, but if you check the European specifications for these cars you can get a better idea for the true towing capacity (the US specs will tell you not to tow anything, even for my 2.0 liter Protege5). I looked up the Yaris, and the listed towing capacity for the 87hp model is 550 kg without trailer brakes, so about 1200 lbs.....so you should be fine.

how many mpg's does this get?

I don't think there would be many hills where I intend to travel. Good to know the Ford Focus could do it.

Don't intend to have a tilt trailer, either. Too much windage.

I think the Mini Cooper might have more horsepower than the "compacts" I list, but at least there are those out there who have experience with this, so I know it's possible.

As for regulations, I am only aware of FL DOT rule that requires any trailer with more than one axle (or over a certain weight) has to have trailer brakes on EACH WHEEL.

Not many trailer mfg. companies do this, which leaves the buyer in violation of DOT.

Yes, I've received a "reminder" of this little detail from a "friendly public servant" a while back.

you meant gpm, right?

Thanks Arie. I see you're just up the road from me in Ft. Myers. Any chance you'd be free to sail once in a while?
Where do you usually float that H16?

I have heard that installing a trailer hitch on some small cars will void the warranty. Better check the fine print!

Just checked and the steepest trailering we did with the Tornado behind Focus was 10% climbs. Speed limit was 80km/h and we could follow the traffic by gearing down.
Towing a tilt trailer is usually murder for the mpg if you go long/fast <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> By breaking the Tornado down we could tow the hulls in the wake behind the car, but the mast poking up and forward over the car still made for some drag.
I find driving a largish car is much more comfortable when driving on highways for 6-xx hours. But money is what decides in the end.

Mike trailered his T from Calif to FL, but not behind the Mini and not in tilt mode (I think). He should be able to share some good information next time he checks in here.

Get one that's out of warranty :-)

I use to pull my Hobie 16 by in early 80's with a Toyota Tercel, with a loaded sailbox . Engine about the size of a sewing machine. Hills were a problem sometimes, but I always got to the regatta.

Doug

Pretty much ANY car can tow 1,000 pounds. I've towed a Hobie 16 and 18 with a Ford Escort, Toyota Corolla hatchback and VW Rabbit diesel. I've towed the Prindle 18.2 with a Nissan Sentra. All of these cars had 4cyl 1.6ltr or smaller engines with around 100hp (actually torque is a better indicator for towing ability). They all did the job just fine.

I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you install an after-market transmission fluid cooler on the vehicle though! You can buy them online and they're easy to install. Just mount it in front of the radiator, connect the intake and output tranny fluid lines and add more tranny fluid to make up for the increased hose and radiator length. It's the transmissions on these smaller vehicles that suffer when towing and keeping the fluid cool goes a long way into making the tranny last.

That would be for automatic transmissions, right? We only ever towed with a manual transmission.

You can install a transmission cooler on manual transmissions. Usually automatics are already equipped with an oil cooler that is integrated into the radiator.

Thanks Robi, but do you really need one on a car with manual transmission?

We've found it easier to cut in half the recommended service intreval on transmission fluid is easier than installing aftermarket coolers and can give you an earlier indication of problems, or one forming.

Research and find out what gears are actually overdrive (in some newer manuals, 4th as well as 5th gear), less than 1:1, and avoid using them under load (up any grade). Same is true for automatics, be careful of the lockup to overdrive, if you notice the transmission shifting in and out of overdrive excessively, turn off the "O/D" or shift in to 3rd or Drive.

Jay, sent you a pm!

I have to post this every so often:
One boat, two trailers, two boxes, and I think there's a coupla kayak stuck in there.




This guy does 1000 mile round trip deliveries for me once to twice a month. Two boats and 5 kayaks is the max so far. 32 MPG +or- he says.

We use to double stack ALL the time WHEN 200 boat regattas were common. DUH never see those days again <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I've used a 1989 VW Cabriolet to tow my T on a breakdown trailer repeatedly(500+miles 1 way). Trailering is less a function of H.P. and more closely related to braking the load. You don't want to be pushing through a stoplight if you are unprepared or underbraked( by neglect or design).

This is the thing that most people forget that scares me when towing anything. It doesn't take many downhill grades, or tight twisty down hill corners to start losing brakes on a little car. It takes caution to do so safely. Brakes and suspension are more of a determining factor in what a vehicle can carry than power.

Dude, these cars are less than $10,000 NEW. They don't even come with Cruise Control for pete's sake.So I'd figure a 2 year old model would run about $6,000.

I'd consider them as "disposable" (good American attitude there), and if I blew the engine after four years, I'd probably just drop another one in pretty cheap. A 1.6L 4banger is not too expensive. And being that small and simplistic, I don't imagine they'd be too tough to work on.

I agree that any modification would most certainly void the warranty. But how good are warranties anyway these days? I haven't read the fine print on any lately.

I wouldn't doubt that in the manual for any one of those cars it would say, "maximum towing capacity 1,000 pounds". And then in the warranty details it would say, "towing any trailer voids the vehicle warranty."

Have you considered the 4 cylinder Ford Ranger? They're pretty cheap, and get pretty decent milage.

I didn't intend to tow with mine, but with the price of diesel fuel this year I've been using it exclusively.

My 99 Dodge Intrepid ES has been a great car to tow, its got decent power and the rear seats fold down. Go find a used one, over the life of my car, I've gotten 23 mpg, its the ES with the 245 hp engine. When I have the Acat on the back, I have to keep reminding myself that its back there, I dont even notice it when I'm driving.

Dodge seems pretty overpowered (and overpriced) although much better looking than the compacts.

These midget cars get 35-40 mpg highway (not with trailer). And since I won't be hauling a trailer that much, I'm not sure I'd need something as big as the Dodge.

Maybe a Neon or something.

As far as accidents, unless I'm driving an Expedition, I figure I might as well get squashed outright rather than be permanently disabled for the next 40 years.

can you get trailer hitches for those cars? Might be a factor.

I still haven't figured out how to break it to Bonnie that the VW Jetta wagon is getting a hitch...maybe I quietly install it one weekend and act like it's always been there? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Of course, she'll probably read this next week.

I own an Honda Fit. DO NOT ATTEMPT to tow anything with it, not even an a-cat, not even an opti.

****is skipped the warranty is automatically voided?

Warranty is pure BS.

I tow a double stacked trailer (non aluminum, two blades, one sail box and one truck box) with my Nissan Sentra...standard 5 speed, no AC....and get 20-25 mpg's. (without I get 32-34mpg) NO problems! The trailer hitch was a birthday present to myself. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I use a Toyota Tacoma and it is decidedly unspectacular in performance and mileage. It is so poor I'm considering a sedan or small wagon.

Here Ya Go:



That's a 162 hp Cooper S.
The trailer is steel in this picture. I was pulling it with a Rabbit GTi (~120 hp) for a few years, even up steep/long hills. Cooper was much better for the power but also it has much stiffer suspension...the nose of the car wasn't pointing up all the time.

My current trailer is all aluminum...but does have a big wooden storage box...so I'm not too sure it's lighter than the steel setup.

Note that the biggest safety concern with this setup is the constant attention it seems to attract from other drivers & their passengers, even on the freeway at 70 mph. People really shouldn't be leaning out windows at that speed trying to take a picutre with a cell phone! At least use a proper SLR & so you can call it "ART" <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I towe my T and A behind a Suburu Forrester with no problems.

But what about the 250lb dudes IN the car. If they can fit in the car then the brake should handle that or the 1000lb trailer behind the car. I think 1000lbs is not above and beyond most designed braking loads. no one should expect to stop in the same distance as without the brakes.... but you get my point.

why not?

Safety.

All the cars mentioned have adequate HP and torque to tow 500-700 lbs. But their short wheel bases, minimalistic brakes, spindly chassis and light weights make them unsuitable to safely tow a 16+ foot catamaran due to the windage of the load. (A small, compact load of similar weight may be a different story.) I've towed a lot of boats and other trailers of various shapes and sizes over the years. You do not want the tail wagging the dog!

A well balanced trailer, meaning reasonable tongue weight(just shy of 100 lbs in this arena). That combined with a level trailer (similar sized tires go a long way toward this goal) will follow you on a good hitch without much drama in any of the cars mentioned. Good shocks and upgraded springs (in the rear esp.) are also easy replacements for safer towing. The goal is to reduce the distance the tongue travels between the ball and the ground. The stiff suspension on the Mini for example is fine. Just be sure to keep the total weight for the trailer package less than the rating on the hitch probably 1000-1500 lbs

The difference between the four 1/8 of a ton club members and the 1000lb trailer is the location of the weight. Put your toolbox and spares in the car not the trailer. My VW Cabriolet is not heavier than the Fit or Yaris and with a sport suspension and nothing else, it pulls the Tornado without problems. It's also easy to see with the top down. I will admit that I really like pulling the boat with my van because of the a/c and space availability for passangers. That brings you right bback to the oil debate on another thread. BTW 22-28 MPG with the Cabriolet 12-14 MPG with the Eurovan with the boat

H16 with a ford focus. Heavy steel trailer, heavy pvc sail tube, heavy hulls. About 800 - 900 lbs fully loaded. Averaged 25.6 mpg on a 600 mile trip last week, towing the boat.


Get around 30/35 without the boat. That's driving like an old person. 55 with the left turn signal on.


My old 1992 Honda Accord would get 36 with heavy acceleration and insane braking. Never did figure milage towing the trailer, but it handled the boat much better than the ford. Personally, I'd go for the Fit and then look for an older Accord or Camry wagon for boat towing. I've ruined the carpet in the focus tracking sand after sailing.

You used to be able to find a good one for $1500 and insurance is dirt cheap.

Hey Tri X,

I saw you going south on US31, just above Kokomo, as I was headed north yesterday. I wondered if the blue H16 was you. I left my Wave in Indy this time, but may take it up to Culver another weekend. How was your week on Lake Max?

Bill

It was wonderful and the wind was great.

The girlfriend had a work issue, so we had to leave 3 days early. I had really wanted to stay for lakefest....

Usually the tail wagging the dog results from unsafe speeds....Speed is a huge factor in safe trailering. I really can tell the difference when towing with my Protege5 compared to our minivan....with the minivan I never feel the trailer getting squirly, even at higher speeds, but with the Protege I have to watch my speed (but it still feels rock solid at less than 65 mph). On one trip from the west to the east coast of Florida yesterday I saw three broken down PWC trailers with various forms of axle/bearing breakdowns, and i bet this was primarily due to excessive speeds (one guy came flying by at 80+ MPH,wagging his tail, only to be passed by me by the side of the road a few miles later...). If you check the European manufacturers specs, you should get a good idea about max braked and unbraked trailer weights and tongue weights for small cars (they have all the experience over there in regards to small car towing), and if you combine that with safe speeds (not exceeding 60mph or so) you will be fine, and you will get great fuel mileage! The hydrodynamic shape of cat hulls helps as well to limit frontal drag.

This confuses the snot out of me. I get 15-16mpg pulling my boat with a 3/4 ton pickup. I get about the same mileage pulling a 7x16 enclosed trailer that empty weighs twice as much as my boat + trailer. I think there is a lot more windage there then you would think. The absolute worst mileage I've gotten was 7mpg doing 70 through Illinois into a headwind way over weight, (like pickup and a 24' enclosed car trailer packed full of crap were close to 27,000 lbs), it confuses me why something so small like a beach cat would drag my mileage down so far. Heck, I put 7 boats in that same car trailer going out to the mini-mega in NY last year and averaged 12.7mpg! I get around 20mpg empty btw.

or, the air comes off the back of my pickup in the least cat-towing-friendly way possible.