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Polar Diagrams for beach catamarans?
by Frank N. 05/04/22 07:38 PM
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Re: Can any of these haul a boat /trailer? [Re: Joanna] #149734
07/17/08 04:27 PM
07/17/08 04:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
I use a Toyota Tacoma and it is decidedly unspectacular in performance and mileage. It is so poor I'm considering a sedan or small wagon.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Can any of these haul a boat /trailer? [Re: waterbug_wpb] #149735
07/17/08 05:36 PM
07/17/08 05:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
veteran
Tornado  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Here Ya Go:

[Linked Image]

That's a 162 hp Cooper S.
The trailer is steel in this picture. I was pulling it with a Rabbit GTi (~120 hp) for a few years, even up steep/long hills. Cooper was much better for the power but also it has much stiffer suspension...the nose of the car wasn't pointing up all the time.

My current trailer is all aluminum...but does have a big wooden storage box...so I'm not too sure it's lighter than the steel setup.

Note that the biggest safety concern with this setup is the constant attention it seems to attract from other drivers & their passengers, even on the freeway at 70 mph. People really shouldn't be leaning out windows at that speed trying to take a picutre with a cell phone! At least use a proper SLR & so you can call it "ART" <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Last edited by Tornado; 07/17/08 05:40 PM.

Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: Can any of these haul a boat /trailer? [Re: David Ingram] #149736
07/17/08 08:04 PM
07/17/08 08:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
addict
windswept  Offline
addict

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
I towe my T and A behind a Suburu Forrester with no problems.


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: Can any of these haul a boat /trailer? [Re: Karl_Brogger] #149737
07/17/08 08:07 PM
07/17/08 08:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
Quote
Quote
You don't want to be pushing through a stoplight if you are unprepared or underbraked( by neglect or design).


This is the thing that most people forget that scares me when towing anything. It doesn't take many downhill grades, or tight twisty down hill corners to start losing brakes on a little car. It takes caution to do so safely. Brakes and suspension are more of a determining factor in what a vehicle can carry than power.


But what about the 250lb dudes IN the car. If they can fit in the car then the brake should handle that or the 1000lb trailer behind the car. I think 1000lbs is not above and beyond most designed braking loads. no one should expect to stop in the same distance as without the brakes.... but you get my point.

Last edited by PTP; 07/17/08 08:09 PM.
Re: Can any of these haul a boat /trailer? [Re: ejpoulsen] #149738
07/17/08 08:09 PM
07/17/08 08:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
Quote
Quote
Checking to see if any of these cars could effectively haul a cat/trailer. This will be a disassembled cat, so the width of the trailer will be around 7 feet, not the 8'6" like the "normal" cat trailers.

I guestimate the trailer, cat, and equipment will be around 900-1000 lbs. max.

Here's the choices:

Chevy Aveo - 103hp - 107 ft. lbs. torque
Kia Rio - 110hp - 107 ft. lbs. torque
Toyota Yaris - 106hp - 103 ft. lbs. torque
Honda Fit - 109hp - 105 ft. lbs. torque



I own an Honda Fit. DO NOT ATTEMPT to tow anything with it, not even an a-cat, not even an opti.

why not?

Re: Can any of these haul a boat /trailer? [Re: PTP] #149739
07/17/08 09:40 PM
07/17/08 09:40 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
Quote

why not?


Safety.

All the cars mentioned have adequate HP and torque to tow 500-700 lbs. But their short wheel bases, minimalistic brakes, spindly chassis and light weights make them unsuitable to safely tow a 16+ foot catamaran due to the windage of the load. (A small, compact load of similar weight may be a different story.) I've towed a lot of boats and other trailers of various shapes and sizes over the years. You do not want the tail wagging the dog!


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: Can any of these haul a boat /trailer? [Re: ejpoulsen] #149740
07/18/08 02:01 PM
07/18/08 02:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 55
Ft Myers Beach, FL
walkefmb Offline
journeyman
walkefmb  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 55
Ft Myers Beach, FL
A well balanced trailer, meaning reasonable tongue weight(just shy of 100 lbs in this arena). That combined with a level trailer (similar sized tires go a long way toward this goal) will follow you on a good hitch without much drama in any of the cars mentioned. Good shocks and upgraded springs (in the rear esp.) are also easy replacements for safer towing. The goal is to reduce the distance the tongue travels between the ball and the ground. The stiff suspension on the Mini for example is fine. Just be sure to keep the total weight for the trailer package less than the rating on the hitch probably 1000-1500 lbs

The difference between the four 1/8 of a ton club members and the 1000lb trailer is the location of the weight. Put your toolbox and spares in the car not the trailer. My VW Cabriolet is not heavier than the Fit or Yaris and with a sport suspension and nothing else, it pulls the Tornado without problems. It's also easy to see with the top down. I will admit that I really like pulling the boat with my van because of the a/c and space availability for passangers. That brings you right bback to the oil debate on another thread. BTW 22-28 MPG with the Cabriolet 12-14 MPG with the Eurovan with the boat


cedar tornado classic,
sunfish,
1972 morgan 27
optidad
Re: Can any of these haul a boat /trailer? [Re: walkefmb] #149741
07/18/08 11:47 PM
07/18/08 11:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 224
Cincinnati, Ohio
Tri_X_Troll Offline
enthusiast
Tri_X_Troll  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 224
Cincinnati, Ohio
H16 with a ford focus. Heavy steel trailer, heavy pvc sail tube, heavy hulls. About 800 - 900 lbs fully loaded. Averaged 25.6 mpg on a 600 mile trip last week, towing the boat.


Get around 30/35 without the boat. That's driving like an old person. 55 with the left turn signal on.
[Linked Image]

My old 1992 Honda Accord would get 36 with heavy acceleration and insane braking. Never did figure milage towing the trailer, but it handled the boat much better than the ford. Personally, I'd go for the Fit and then look for an older Accord or Camry wagon for boat towing. I've ruined the carpet in the focus tracking sand after sailing.

You used to be able to find a good one for $1500 and insurance is dirt cheap.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Tri_X_Troll; 07/18/08 11:53 PM.
Re: Can any of these haul a boat /trailer? [Re: Tri_X_Troll] #149742
07/19/08 07:18 AM
07/19/08 07:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
IndyWave Offline
enthusiast
IndyWave  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
Hey Tri X,

I saw you going south on US31, just above Kokomo, as I was headed north yesterday. I wondered if the blue H16 was you. I left my Wave in Indy this time, but may take it up to Culver another weekend. How was your week on Lake Max?

Bill


What - Me Worry?


2006 Hobie Wave 7358
"Ish Kabibble"
Re: Can any of these haul a boat /trailer? [Re: IndyWave] #149743
07/19/08 11:54 AM
07/19/08 11:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 224
Cincinnati, Ohio
Tri_X_Troll Offline
enthusiast
Tri_X_Troll  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 224
Cincinnati, Ohio
It was wonderful and the wind was great.

The girlfriend had a work issue, so we had to leave 3 days early. I had really wanted to stay for lakefest....


Ryan - H16 I prefer to go sailing because baseball, football, tennis, and golf only require 1 ball!
Re: Can any of these haul a boat /trailer? [Re: ejpoulsen] #149744
07/19/08 12:23 PM
07/19/08 12:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 164
fort Myers, FL
arievd Offline
member
arievd  Offline
member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 164
fort Myers, FL
Usually the tail wagging the dog results from unsafe speeds....Speed is a huge factor in safe trailering. I really can tell the difference when towing with my Protege5 compared to our minivan....with the minivan I never feel the trailer getting squirly, even at higher speeds, but with the Protege I have to watch my speed (but it still feels rock solid at less than 65 mph). On one trip from the west to the east coast of Florida yesterday I saw three broken down PWC trailers with various forms of axle/bearing breakdowns, and i bet this was primarily due to excessive speeds (one guy came flying by at 80+ MPH,wagging his tail, only to be passed by me by the side of the road a few miles later...). If you check the European manufacturers specs, you should get a good idea about max braked and unbraked trailer weights and tongue weights for small cars (they have all the experience over there in regards to small car towing), and if you combine that with safe speeds (not exceeding 60mph or so) you will be fine, and you will get great fuel mileage! The hydrodynamic shape of cat hulls helps as well to limit frontal drag.

Last edited by arievd; 07/19/08 12:34 PM.
Re: Can any of these haul a boat /trailer? [Re: arievd] #149745
07/19/08 04:28 PM
07/19/08 04:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Quote
The hydrodynamic shape of cat hulls helps as well to limit frontal drag.

This confuses the snot out of me. I get 15-16mpg pulling my boat with a 3/4 ton pickup. I get about the same mileage pulling a 7x16 enclosed trailer that empty weighs twice as much as my boat + trailer. I think there is a lot more windage there then you would think. The absolute worst mileage I've gotten was 7mpg doing 70 through Illinois into a headwind way over weight, (like pickup and a 24' enclosed car trailer packed full of crap were close to 27,000 lbs), it confuses me why something so small like a beach cat would drag my mileage down so far. Heck, I put 7 boats in that same car trailer going out to the mini-mega in NY last year and averaged 12.7mpg! I get around 20mpg empty btw.

or, the air comes off the back of my pickup in the least cat-towing-friendly way possible.

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