Are they allowed to switch kites between races? I.e. have a regular kite in case the wind picks up?

No... you measure in for the regatta two sails. One is your primary sail. Should you damage the sail the officials will give you your substitute for the next race on the water. BUT... you have to repair the primary sail and go back to that for the remainder of the regatta.

Sometimes... that primary sail simply Can't be repaired and you get to use your nice fresh secondary sail for the money race.

Johnny and Charlie will also use the flat sail (part of the program) IF they think the weather will give them an advantage.

Last cycle... they had a seperate mast program and the super duper Cuben Fiber sail material program with Mitch and one other team. It worked! and the US got Silver!

There are LOTS of ways to win... its a game and when the skill level gets really close you can get an advantage using the rules!

Mark,

I dont know if the program worked, or if they just managed to peak at a good time. I would think the latter, they won that silver on skill. The other teams in the program did not have similar results, and the austrian team won without being part of the program.

It is a different game, and lots and lots of psychology. Tragic that we will not see the Tornado go on developing the hooter concept as far as it can go. Would be very interesting to see that sail in use in more windy events.

Hmm, IMO the three teams did very well in the light air conditions and again IMO they had an edge in equipment. The issue was the other teams COULD NOT BUY OR AQUIRE the cuben sail material or masts until after the Olympics. It's not knowable if the equipment was decisive, and edge or irrelevenant. Hagara was and probably still is the top light air sailor ever in the class and his win was not unexpected in the light air conditions of Greece... just like in the unexpected light air conditions in Australia

but my opinion is irrelevant... The class and ISAF felt they had an edge and immedietely put in legislation to close the rules loopholes they exploited.

Now I think the flat spinaker idea issue is a just a little different and not pushing the rules enveleope quite like the mast and sail material program. This is a design issue that matches up to your weather forcasting, current forcast, sailing conditions, team weight etc etc. Is ISAF happy with this turn of events? ... Probably not... they think the laser is the perfect boat for Olympics and did not think far enough ahead to order a girth rule for the spin shapes to cut this area off. (Again in my opinion it's one of those issues that ISAF just knows that membes of the Tornado class will be pushing the rules and one of the reason's it does not like the Tornado class) .... The issue for then is...can a poor country design and test spinakers for the olympics to the same degree as the US?)

Now, the class and ISAF has always allowed sails to be customized and so I think customizing the spin is the same kind of thing. It's an individual choice kind of thing. If you think the current downwind is a big factor in the race... you could decide the risk/reward shifts to the flat upwind chute.

Every team is taking their best shot on a generally agreed upon playing field. Is there an advantage for well funded programs... You bet... the field is not level but everyone was prepared for this game.

Evaluating the design will be good fun!

I would rather see it as the class trying to keep cost under control. Something dont have to actually be any faster as long as people think it is faster.
What I heard (third hand information!) was that the austrians also had cuben sails built, feeling that they had to cover all bases and test the stuff, but went with the a "standard" material instead.



Mark, you and I both know that doing a spi project like this is not what will break the bank. Pretty much the same thing happend at the worlds 2002 Marthas Vineyard when the Gran Segel spis debuted. It is the costs of running the campaign (travel, hotel, rental cars) and lack of income that makes this game impossible for us regular guys. Good for Booth/Pim and John/Charlie (are the brits in as well?) that they are pushing the envelope. Any olympic team could have done the same, and who knows if others have done it??

ISAF.. With sailors having "special light wind and strong current" Star hulls built. Optimized Ynglings and I know not what floating around, why should ISAF choose to pick on the Tornado for spi development there? Besides, who cares about ISAF anymore..

It seems like they'd be running a big risk with those kites. Because the advantage in light air would be much smaller than the disadvantage in big air.

But I'm sure they know what they're doing.

Hi Rolf

You and i agree on the sail program with the flat spin as a legit part of the game.

We agree on the what the real costs for a campaign are to a team.

ISAF as we have come to appreciate is a world wide body and sadly most of them do not have a catamaran team in the game... Since they control the olympics... this proved to be a fatal issue for the class when the politics screwed it.

ISAF doesn't like ANY of this technical developement any of the classes you mention for the Olympics. ISAF can't do anything now... they try to close the loophole for the next quad. Sadly in our case... they completely closed down the Tornado class.

So, Why do we care about ISAF NOW... well many feel that we SHOULD be trying to get back in the games... Clearly we need a different approach if we are to succed. So, we will have to jump those hoops... Identifying what will fly with ISAF will be the entire game. (Seems to me... a Hobie 16 with Spin class would fit the ISAF criteria for 2016.... Is that good for the class?... catamaran racing in general etc etc... I might choose to pass on the Olympics and a catamaran under these circumstances?.. I don't think it would be good for the 16 class... I don't think it would be good for the sport of catamaran racing.

So... if you pull Olympics off the table, in this case... ISAF would then be irrelevant.

Ok Mark, let us not go there. I think we have had the ISAF discussion before without any real progress.

In the ITA Class Rules 5a reads "This is a one-design class. A certificate may be refused even if the specific requirements of the rules are satisfied. Interpretations of these rules shall be made by the ISAF, which shall consult the ITA. The measurer shall report on the Measurement Form anything which he considers departs from the intended nature of the design on the boat, and shall not sign the form"

The new jib will certainly be protested on the basis that
it violates the one design principle of the class,(double headsails vs single) and the sail departs from the intended design of the boat (new rig) where the addition of the spinnaker was clearly to add sail area to enhance off the wind performance.

There have been other instances in the class where innovations that technically measured in were disallowed as
being not in the spirit of the rules. For example the first Guegeon cold molded boats had a keel that with much larger diameter than was achievable using the stressed ply stitch and glue method. The boats had less surface area and superior tacking ability but were successfully protested even though they technically measured in. The tolerances
to the measurement templates were later tightened to eliminate issues like this.

Personally I think the flat gennaker is a great idea and
represents a new evolution in catamaran sail design.

David Melcon

For a linked article on front page of SA today:

"It is a lot flatter and smaller then the regular gennakers used on the Tornado. That allows the team to use this sail upwind in anything under 12 knots, something which is impossible with the traditional gennaker. Mitch Booth and Pim Nieuwenhuis believe that this will give them a big edge over the other competitors in the predominant light breezes of Qingdao.


”This afternoon, we were able to show its potential for the first time”, said helmsman Mitch Booth on Monday evening. After several days of unusual strong winds, today the conditions were perfect for the new sail, 5-10 knots with plenty of chop and current. These are the normal conditions for Qingdao and Mitch Booth commented: “We sailed laps around the other five boats that joined us on the water and I think they will be scratching their heads tonight. We are fully stretched on the wire in 5-7 knots of breeze, while the other crews are still sitting on the hull.” For months Booth and Nieuwenhuis kept their sail secret while developing it with designer Jay Glaser (USA) and sailmaker Ullman Sails Italy. They worked together with the teams from the USA and Puerto Rico to test and develop. No other competitors where allowed near the training facilities to keep the sail secret as long as possible.

Now it became clear that the Dutchmen were working on a special gennaker. Booth: “This sail is approximately seven square meters smaller then a conventional ones for the Tornado and it has a very flat shape. This allows us to use it upwind as well, which is the big advantage over other teams that are only able to use their gennakers downwind.” About the risk of different circumstances during the Olympic Regatta, Mitch commented: “We can survive in the medium and strong air, but will have a huge benefit in the light conditions. We don’t expect strong wind during this regatta, otherwise we wouldn't have chosen this direction.”

Accreditation for Coach Jay Glaser
It has been uncertain for a long time, but finally it is confirmed that Team Zwitserleven will be able to bring their coach Jay Glaser to the Olympics. He will help the Dutch sailors in these last Olympics for the Tornado class. Australian born Mitch Booth already won two Olympic medals while this will be the first Olympic Games for Pim Nieuwenhuis."

Do you mean like the super-dooper swim suits that just had a dozen new World records seen or the guy who develops the bikes for the NZ team that saw Sarah Ulmer cut 3 seconds off her times and he says he has done it again?
Same bikes, boats, swimsuits for everyone please.....oh, that would mean we would all still be living in caves.

Rick I have taken photos off your sailing videos to get the ideas for my Tiger Shark and Taipan projects.

My reading of it is this. It is faster up wind in the light and the double slot keeps it almost as fast down wind...and as the wind comes up the boats start to get out of control down wind anyway so the speed will not be compromised after the wind gets high enough. So it is the intermediate wind and how big that window is that creates the end game.

Oh I don't know, I kind of want to find out who the best athlete is and I'm less interested in their equipment.

My cave has a flat screen and a beer fridge... cave living rules!

Equipment Rules:

The US trials were contentious because some swimmers could get the super suit while others could not... somewhat confounding the Who is the fastest swimmer competition.

I was hoping that they would just settle it like my mother would have back in the day.

All of this complaining... FINE! NOBODY wears a swim suit...

Would have made it a point to watch the trials then!

I wonder what the Tornado sailors are planing to demonstrate their feelings about ISAF's choice of equipment for the next games. Black sails?

How about a great big decal on the sail with ISAF inside of a red circle with the red stripe across it.
yanno, NO ISAF kinda like the big NO SMOKING signs.

http://www.windguru.cz/int/index.php?sc=37855

Windy at Qingdao at the moment. Hope it lasts for the games and the gennaker stays in the bag.

(Again in my opinion it's one of those issues that ISAF just knows that members of the Tornado class will be pushing the rules and one of the reasons it does not like the Tornado class) ....
ISAF officials don't like those pushing the envelope? Like the world-class Olympic swimmers, track and field (etc.) competitors who continually discover fancy new drugs to be investigated and banned? Now superlight Yinglings? Who ever thought that light boats have an advantage? DUH!

If the multihulls in this week's light-air Chicago-Mac race had hooters they may have stayed much closer to the 90 footers. Yesterday I accidently met a slug racer who was returning home to Traverse City. They saw my 2003 Rick's Place/Hogsbreath T-shirt and asked what that and CABB was. I explained sadly about Rick's Place. 8^( Unprovoked, the fine gentleman then explained that catamarans aren't really sailboats, besides, they don't go upwind. And I had to reply "Yup- and they don't sink".

I forgot I had this old pic of me learning how to sail screacher upwind back when I first got the Fboat, forgive the overtrimmed sail for I knew not what I did. Not that I know much more now, but then if it was easy, everyone would be sailing...

There is nothing new about this kind of sail, is there? It has been standard on big monohulls for many, many years. It's called a genoa jib. It is just relatively new on small multihulls. Right?