Can anybody share some advice or their experience with running kites on 4.9s.

These boats were never designed for them but many people have fitted kites to them even just for fun outside class racing.

Are the boats structually sound enough to take the kite?
What are the potential problems to look out for?
Have any sailors had any bad experiences with them?

More specifically, is the front beam and the bows up to the job long term in testing conditions?

I have heard of front beam breakages but have also heard of non spin 4.9s with front beam breakages also......

Anybody experience breaking front beams, and if so, what was the cause.

The 4.9 works absolutely fabulous with the kite. I've sailed mine 1-up and 2-up with the kite in all types of conditions and sea state--the design and build is absolutely solid and completely "up to the task." So you should have no worries at all adding a kite. Furthermore, the boat sails quite well with the kite!!!

A bit of trivia here--initially the 4.9 was designed with a kite in mind. From what I've heard, initial tests with the kite slowed the boat down because it was too fiddly, so the kite was nixed. That was before snuffers and flatter/narrower kites. Instead the 4.9 ended up with a rather generous jib.

Fast forward a few years to about 7-8 years ago and kites for cats (along with launching systems) made them feasible for the 4.9. Many 4.9s now have kites and I have never heard of a structural failure specifically attributable to kite use (barring skipper stupidity).

The Taipan has great upwind bows; downwind they are adequate but could have more volume. So deep reaching requires getting the weight back, whether or not you have a kite. Having sailed the boat in every possible configuration (ie uni, sloop, uni/kite, sloop/kite), I can tell you that the downwind ride is better and more forgiving--bow wise--with a modern kite.

I have raced 4.9s sloop a bit in the past and also competed as crew on a Sloop Taipan with kite at the first AUS F16 event about 6 years ago at Kurnell.

I have thrown the question about front beams to the Taipan guys on the AUS catsailor forum and yahoo group hoping to here from the guys who have experienced the beam failures and find out what caused them.

Steve

I have never seen a beam failure. I have seen a few beam bolts break though.

The 4.9 is built tough, and can handle most conditions thrown at, it as you know.

I personaly never had a kite on mine, but I did sail with a hooter many times,and I never had any trouble, except for trying to keep the smile off my face.

Regards Tony

Thanks Tony, I have never seen one either, but have heard off them. Check out the AUS Taipan for sale page

http://www.taipan.asn.au/Buy_it_now/buy_it_frame.htm



You can obviously see why I am asking the question.

I believe some of the F16 Taipans had added some beam to the stock version. This could be an issue but I’ve heard absolutely nothing. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Just buy one TA and stop whinging about having no boat!!! (And not lending you one of mine either!)

Only thing to note in regard to beams is this. Replace the inner rear beam bolt every season. Knowing the way you sail this is imperative and doesn't cost too much to do. They are the first ones to break (real loud too).

The other thing to check is the bolt on the underside of the front beam holding the dolphin striker just before going into the hull. If someone put a saddle real close to it for a righting line then you tend to get cracks lining up all 3 holes after 3 or 4 seasons. This saddle really should be put perpendicular to the hull and at least 2 inches away. Only thing to do is replace the beam in that case.

But the boats perform great with the kite.

There are a few widened Taipan 4.9's around and have been for several years. About halve of them have been converted by AHPC themselves upon request by buyers. All widened Taipans used the same main beam section and AHPC simply used the same dolphin striker setup but with a longer strap. Non of these have ever shown any issues in whatever way possible. I refer to these as one would expect these to develop issues first because of the larger leverage forces due to being wider. All wide Taipans did however replace the rearbeam with a longer round tube 80x2 with a seperate traveller rail, most for convenience as the square rearbeams come cut to length from the factory and AHPC still had these beams from the time when the A-cats had alu beams. The homebuilders used these as they are alot easier to get hold of and give a little bit more stiffness to the wider platform as well.

Apart from that all spinnaker equipped Taipans are stock with regard to the main components like platform and mast/stays and none has experienced issues so far. I think Phill said it ones best. He said :"the loads of a jib and single forestay on an upwind leg are just so much larger then any spinnaker can generate when downwind that the original design will take a spi in its stride" I think this to be the best short explanation of the situation as we now know it = not a single failure worth mentioning with spi equipped Taipans. Hell, even the masts take ALOT more of downright spinnaker abuse them we ever expected them to. I think we have all seen the pictures showing the mast bending forward with the mainsheet slacks and the spi tight. I can't report a single mast being broken that way so far, although there is sure enough going to be a time where someone will push it too far that way but it hasn't happened yet; despite clocking many sailing hours with many boats over many years so far.

I'm absolutely convinced that the basic Taipan design (no reinforcements) can take the spinnaker without a hitch structurally wise.

Wouter

-1- Was answered in my earlier posting. No issues so far and I think we have close to 100 spi equipped taipans sailing around for many years now. Indeed, not a single failure directly attributable to the spinnaker. We have had no shortage or rough weather at our events and events like Texel, the Alter Cup, Alter Cup qualifier etc.

-2- None in the way of technical problems that I know of. Personally, I would replace the original jib with a selftacker as soon as possible. That tramp sheeted jib in simply in the way for proper spi handling and reduces the space on the tramp to unacceptable levels when sailing 2-up. The difference is very significant.

-3- With regard to spinnaker usage I think the boat/hulls perform better with the spi up in all conditions expect the extremely light winds where the spi won't fill. I found the boat to be less dive happy under spinnaker then the orginal version. The only possible exception could be where you overtake steep ways at speed where the non-spi boat would be travelling with the waves at the same speed. In fact the volume of the bows is too little to overtake significant waves at large speeds, The bows want to dig in too much and the mainbeam is a little low on the platform (I have raised my by 25 mm and that makes a difference). However I venture that the orgininal Taipan has the same issues when it has enough power to overtake the same ways with speed and so this difference can only be associated to the spinnaker in he way that it is easier to up up sufficient speed with it to get in these situations. Apart from that the spi Taipan is the same in good and bad points as the standard Taipan, both are a bit tricky when rounding A-mark and going from upwind to a beam reach.

So I would take note of three things :

-1- replace the orginal jib with a selftacker
-2- mind to not put to much weight on the boat with regard to not having the low mainbeam catch waves to often.
-3- Be prepared to learn to ride the waves with skill and care in wave-overtaking conditions. Newer F16's are more forgiving in this.

All issues that I personally could and can live with very well. I really like my boat and in the light stuff she really fast when the modern hullshapes can't really lift their luff hulls out of the water. So she has strong points as well.

Wouter

Cheers TFC, should have emailed you knowing how much sailing you did with the kite early on.



Heard that from a few 4.9 sailors now. This may be the reason why some front beams have been replaced. Other reasons I can think off are as follows.

Modifications to beam fitting layouts particularly barber hauler.

Mast falling whilst rasing or lowering at a bad angle with mast step pin in.

Older boats need a re-fresh

Yep self tacker would be a must, but a quick release setup so you can return it back to original for class racing.



Yeah, I believe a boat is happier with a kite up unless you are a chocker. The Capricorn was ok in the fresh stuff with the kite up. A couple of races I have found myself having to run downwind wild without a kite due to a breakage..... and they really do not have the bows for that. .... Real submarine.

Steering and sheeting of the kite around waves makes or breaks your downwind when fresh. Done right and you can create a fair bit of lift from the kite to help the bows over the waves...... Something you really noticed on the Capricorn in big breeze.

Can you just leave the string with beads on the boat and remove the pole and selftacking jib sail and fit the old jib but leave the rail/cleats on and be fully Taipan 4.9 race compliant ?

I don't recall any Taipan rules disallowing having a selftacking rail on the boat when you are not using it. Simply exchanging the new jib with the old and hooking up the blocks to the tramp should be enough. The rail itself weights nothing and all the other (selftacking) hardware is removed together with the spi pole, right.


Anyway, good luck with finding a new boat for yourself and as always the same addagio relates to boat as they do to women. Love the good points and learn to live with the bad ones, then your time together will be fine.

Wouter

Main reason to remove the self-tacker is that in a bad tack the tramp-mounted jib sheets don't get caught up in it. These jibs are quite long, especially if you have a single barber rope cleated in the middle that pulls in both sides at once, as opposed to system that you release before you gybe and then re-set. The single rope for both sides is really good and really quick, but does mean the jib sheet needs to 1 to 1.5m longer.