So apparently P.C. has released several new pricelists this summer. I'm not sure whats going on with the infusions... but the 20 has seen price jumps of a few hundred dollars for all the sails in the last couple months. It's not really cool of them to change the price midsummer but whatever, I can live with a few hundred...
But here's what really totally astonished me with these new prices. A new Nacra 20 mast is now $11,000!!! I cannot think of any justified reason for such a high cost. Any composite mast builder could build a similar and better product to the one currently offered for $3-$5K. Is someone making a huge profit or does P.C. have a conspiracy to kill the 20 class to make way for the 18? Breaking an $11,000 mast would total most boats! Might provide a good check to buy an F18 though!
I know going to an aluminum mast has been discussed but in the meantime what do we do if we break a mast?
I love the 20 and I hate to see it suffer because the manufacturer is making poor decisions. Personally, I think the best route is to threaten to find a new mast builder to make one that clearly does not offer an advantage over current masts.
I think it may be the first step in going to the alluminum mast. First you have to price one so frikin' high, that the other will be easily accepted by the consumer. I'm not against it (switching to the aluminum mast), I think the new mast is getting favorable reviews on the F17 and seems to be well liked on the Infusion...aside from the team in the GT who snapped theirs when they flipped.
Lee
Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
It really is ridiculous that the mast is that expensive. My insurnace wouldn't cover the cost of a new one, and I'd be forced to sell the leftovers of the boat if that happened.
Personally, I think something needs to be done by the class concerning the price of these masts. Outside class supplier perhaps.
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
I thought I heard they were importing the masts from South Africa to get their cost down, but 11k, that sounds high. Like I know though... The Tornado carbon sounds interesting but dont know how uncompatible it would be.
I think this is an example of what can happen with Single Manufacturer classes. If the SM calls the shots, the class members have limited control on quality and/or costs.
If the mast price is correct, then I suspect PC may have needed to switch builders for some reason and couldn't get a reasonable price.
I don't know what the "new" alum. mast on the 17 is like, but I can tell you I love my alum. wing mast on my Blade. The wing section is so much nicer to use too. I know carbon is lighter, maybe stiffer, etc. but $11K for a mast? I think Ben Hall said he only spent about $2K for all the stuff to build his wing sail! (as a cost comparison, I'm not suggesting you put one on an I-20)
Can you buy the boat without the mast and then find a new carbon mast suplier or buy an alum. wing mast?
Yes, I know you won't be -one design- anymore, but if you get the class to vote to allow it, no problems, right? I mean, it's just a length of alum. mast stock so how could it possibly be "faster" than the $11K carbon mast, right? So nobody should object to using one, right? And they already did it with the F17's right?
I thought the I-20 Class President was some guy named "The Nazi" or something like that, down in FL somewhere, once upon a time, long, long ago... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
The owners/class members don't really have that much of a say in the direction of let's say the N20, at least we didn't when I was sailing one.
The N20 carbon mast is heavy IMO which means for me anyway it was/is stupid friendly.
I really like the wing mast on the Infusion and if I owned an N20 and the class went that way, I don't think it would bother me that much. Sailing formula has relaxed me a bit. I still think the H16 and Laser are two of the best OD fleets on the planet.
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Well, the M20 mast is ~9k right now imported from Sweden... I can say with certainty that the I20 stick is not NEARLY as nice as that mast. Get up close to one of those masts and they're a work of art!! It's like a 34' A-cat mast... weighs nothing! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Wow - I was so incredulous when I read this that I called our local dealer to confirm - they said $10,000 and change - and with shipping that would put it close to $11K.
The Nacra 20 mast is 32' high - the Tornado is only 30.5' - so using a Martstrom mast doesn't look like an option without changing sails.
Tiger masts at less than $2K look like a bargain!
Something to make you Nacra 20 guys think twice before launching at Jupiter into big surf...
The mast is made by Southern Spars. I think that's out of Australia. The bases were coming from South Africa and they were having a hard time getting them. I wrote the Nacra class last year and asked for a rule change to move the rotator arm and recieved no resistance since the N17 was changed that way with the new mast and base. The rule went into effect Jan '08. I seriously thing the wing mast is on the way for the boat. I am concerned with the durability of it for the N20. After seeing one first hand snapping on an F18 when it hit the water, how will it hold up to more sail area on the main and spinn? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Lee
Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
4.2 MAST. The extrusion length and position of the mast head, mast hound, jib halyard strap eye, spreader and mast base are not to be altered in any manner. The gooseneck and diamond wire tangs may not be moved from the factory supplied position. Rotator arm maybe relocated using the new casting, control system is open.
Ken got a fully assembled new mast delivered from PC to the dealer for under $7,000 (don't remember the exact figure). This was just ofter RTI in June. So, sounds like a very aggressive price increase. Hum??
I rigged my boat today for the NE100... I was the first there by several hours... I left as it was starting to rain and drove 45 minutes home... after getting home I got a call saying my boat had flipped over during the storm from a 50mphish gust pushed through the grass, down a 2 foot enbankment with the mast head first into the sand... the boat just missed a bunch of big rocks. All I could think about was $11,000! I drove up and people had already dug the mast out of the sand... all that was wrong was the mast track was a little scuffed up. Everyone was amazed that it didn't break, myself included... I guess we're paying for some durability with these masts.
I rigged my boat today for the NE100... I was the first there by several hours... I left as it was starting to rain and drove 45 minutes home... after getting home I got a call saying my boat had flipped over during the storm from a 50mphish gust pushed through the grass, down a 2 foot enbankment with the mast head first into the sand... the boat just missed a bunch of big rocks. All I could think about was $11,000! I drove up and people had already dug the mast out of the sand... all that was wrong was the mast track was a little scuffed up. Everyone was amazed that it didn't break, myself included... I guess we're paying for some durability with these masts.
