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Bye bye Nacra 20 class? #151937
08/07/08 10:29 PM
08/07/08 10:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
wildtsail Offline OP
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wildtsail  Offline OP
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Newport, RI
So apparently P.C. has released several new pricelists this summer. I'm not sure whats going on with the infusions... but the 20 has seen price jumps of a few hundred dollars for all the sails in the last couple months. It's not really cool of them to change the price midsummer but whatever, I can live with a few hundred...

But here's what really totally astonished me with these new prices.
A new Nacra 20 mast is now $11,000!!!
I cannot think of any justified reason for such a high cost. Any composite mast builder could build a similar and better product to the one currently offered for $3-$5K.
Is someone making a huge profit or does P.C. have a conspiracy to kill the 20 class to make way for the 18?
Breaking an $11,000 mast would total most boats! Might provide a good check to buy an F18 though!

I know going to an aluminum mast has been discussed but in the meantime what do we do if we break a mast?

I love the 20 and I hate to see it suffer because the manufacturer is making poor decisions. Personally, I think the best route is to threaten to find a new mast builder to make one that clearly does not offer an advantage over current masts.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: wildtsail] #151938
08/07/08 11:17 PM
08/07/08 11:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
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Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Maybe the N20 will be the next member of the Dead Boat Society.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: hobie1616] #151939
08/08/08 02:04 AM
08/08/08 02:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
I think it may be the first step in going to the alluminum mast. First you have to price one so frikin' high, that the other will be easily accepted by the consumer. I'm not against it (switching to the aluminum mast), I think the new mast is getting favorable reviews on the F17 and seems to be well liked on the Infusion...aside from the team in the GT who snapped theirs when they flipped.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: TeamChums] #151940
08/08/08 02:20 AM
08/08/08 02:20 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
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West coast of Norway
In comparison, if the quoted price is correct, Marstrøm sells the Tornado carbon masts for US$4.900,- + shipping.

Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #151941
08/08/08 10:46 AM
08/08/08 10:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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ThunderMuffin  Offline
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Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
It really is ridiculous that the mast is that expensive. My insurnace wouldn't cover the cost of a new one, and I'd be forced to sell the leftovers of the boat if that happened.

Personally, I think something needs to be done by the class concerning the price of these masts. Outside class supplier perhaps.

Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: ThunderMuffin] #151942
08/08/08 10:50 AM
08/08/08 10:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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David Ingram  Offline
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Clermont, FL, USA
I'm with Chums, I suspect they are laying the ground work to go with the alloy stick. The class may end up evolving like the F17.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: David Ingram] #151943
08/08/08 11:41 AM
08/08/08 11:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 40
Mesa, AZ
basketcase Offline
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basketcase  Offline
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Posts: 40
Mesa, AZ
I thought I heard they were importing the masts from South Africa to get their cost down, but 11k, that sounds high. Like I know though...
The Tornado carbon sounds interesting but dont know how uncompatible it would be.

Jonathan

Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: basketcase] #151944
08/08/08 11:50 AM
08/08/08 11:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
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Tornado  Offline
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Vancouver, BC
I think this is an example of what can happen with Single Manufacturer classes. If the SM calls the shots, the class members have limited control on quality and/or costs.

If the mast price is correct, then I suspect PC may have needed to switch builders for some reason and couldn't get a reasonable price.

Mike.


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: David Ingram] #151945
08/08/08 11:53 AM
08/08/08 11:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Timbo  Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
I don't know what the "new" alum. mast on the 17 is like, but I can tell you I love my alum. wing mast on my Blade. The wing section is so much nicer to use too. I know carbon is lighter, maybe stiffer, etc. but $11K for a mast? I think Ben Hall said he only spent about $2K for all the stuff to build his wing sail! (as a cost comparison, I'm not suggesting you put one on an I-20)

Can you buy the boat without the mast and then find a new carbon mast suplier or buy an alum. wing mast?

Yes, I know you won't be -one design- anymore, but if you get the class to vote to allow it, no problems, right? I mean, it's just a length of alum. mast stock so how could it possibly be "faster" than the $11K carbon mast, right? So nobody should object to using one, right? And they already did it with the F17's right?


Blade F16
#777
Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: ThunderMuffin] #151946
08/08/08 12:04 PM
08/08/08 12:04 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503
BrianK Offline
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BrianK  Offline
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Quote

Personally, I think something needs to be done by the class concerning the price of these masts. Outside class supplier perhaps.


Ever been able to find out who the Nacra "class" is? I havn't.

Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: BrianK] #151947
08/08/08 12:25 PM
08/08/08 12:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
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Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
I thought the I-20 Class President was some guy named "The Nazi" or something like that, down in FL somewhere, once upon a time, long, long ago... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Attached Files
154465-IMG_7674.jpg (55 downloads)
Last edited by Timbo; 08/08/08 01:46 PM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: Timbo] #151948
08/08/08 12:28 PM
08/08/08 12:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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David Ingram  Offline
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Clermont, FL, USA
The owners/class members don't really have that much of a say in the direction of let's say the N20, at least we didn't when I was sailing one.

The N20 carbon mast is heavy IMO which means for me anyway it was/is stupid friendly.

I really like the wing mast on the Infusion and if I owned an N20 and the class went that way, I don't think it would bother me that much. Sailing formula has relaxed me a bit. I still think the H16 and Laser are two of the best OD fleets on the planet.

The F17 is using the Infusion mast.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: Timbo] #151949
08/08/08 12:30 PM
08/08/08 12:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
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Will_R  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Well, the M20 mast is ~9k right now imported from Sweden... I can say with certainty that the I20 stick is not NEARLY as nice as that mast. Get up close to one of those masts and they're a work of art!! It's like a 34' A-cat mast... weighs nothing! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: wildtsail] #151950
08/08/08 12:34 PM
08/08/08 12:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
flumpmaster Offline
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flumpmaster  Offline
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Posts: 606
League City, TX
Wow - I was so incredulous when I read this that I called our local dealer to confirm - they said $10,000 and change - and with shipping that would put it close to $11K.

The Nacra 20 mast is 32' high - the Tornado is only 30.5' - so using a Martstrom mast doesn't look like an option without changing sails.

Tiger masts at less than $2K look like a bargain!

Something to make you Nacra 20 guys think twice before launching at Jupiter into big surf...

Chris.


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: flumpmaster] #151951
08/08/08 02:19 PM
08/08/08 02:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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TeamChums  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
The mast is made by Southern Spars. I think that's out of Australia. The bases were coming from South Africa and they were having a hard time getting them. I wrote the Nacra class last year and asked for a rule change to move the rotator arm and recieved no resistance since the N17 was changed that way with the new mast and base. The rule went into effect Jan '08. I seriously thing the wing mast is on the way for the boat. I am concerned with the durability of it for the N20. After seeing one first hand snapping on an F18 when it hit the water, how will it hold up to more sail area on the main and spinn? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: TeamChums] #151952
08/08/08 03:01 PM
08/08/08 03:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Back when I heard about this development earlier in the spring, the words "Double Spreaders" were spoken.

Hrmmm.

Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: TeamChums] #151953
08/08/08 03:03 PM
08/08/08 03:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 98
TedZ Offline
journeyman
TedZ  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 98
4.2 MAST. The extrusion length and position of the mast head, mast
hound, jib halyard strap eye, spreader and mast base are not to be altered
in any manner. The gooseneck and diamond wire tangs may not be moved from
the factory supplied position. Rotator arm maybe relocated using the new casting, control system is open.

http://www.nacraclass.com/N20.htm

Sometimes you need to check things out for yourself. I believe this was covered in a Class newsletter.

Ted

Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: flumpmaster] #151954
08/08/08 09:09 PM
08/08/08 09:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline
Pooh-Bah
P.M.  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
Ken got a fully assembled new mast delivered from PC to the dealer for under $7,000 (don't remember the exact figure). This was just ofter RTI in June. So, sounds like a very aggressive price increase. Hum??


Philip
USA #1006
Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: TedZ] #151955
08/08/08 09:12 PM
08/08/08 09:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
wildtsail Offline OP
old hand
wildtsail  Offline OP
old hand

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
I rigged my boat today for the NE100... I was the first there by several hours... I left as it was starting to rain and drove 45 minutes home... after getting home I got a call saying my boat had flipped over during the storm from a 50mphish gust pushed through the grass, down a 2 foot enbankment with the mast head first into the sand... the boat just missed a bunch of big rocks.
All I could think about was $11,000!
I drove up and people had already dug the mast out of the sand... all that was wrong was the mast track was a little scuffed up.
Everyone was amazed that it didn't break, myself included... I guess we're paying for some durability with these masts.

Attached Files
154518-080808_1712a.jpg (71 downloads)
Re: Bye bye Nacra 20 class? [Re: wildtsail] #151956
08/08/08 10:11 PM
08/08/08 10:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
flumpmaster Offline
addict
flumpmaster  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
Quote
I rigged my boat today for the NE100... I was the first there by several hours... I left as it was starting to rain and drove 45 minutes home... after getting home I got a call saying my boat had flipped over during the storm from a 50mphish gust pushed through the grass, down a 2 foot enbankment with the mast head first into the sand... the boat just missed a bunch of big rocks.
All I could think about was $11,000!
I drove up and people had already dug the mast out of the sand... all that was wrong was the mast track was a little scuffed up.
Everyone was amazed that it didn't break, myself included... I guess we're paying for some durability with these masts.


Two words - Jensen Beach


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
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