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Comments on Capricorn #152052
08/09/08 05:45 AM
08/09/08 05:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline OP
enthusiast
Baltic  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
After some years sailing a Taipan F18, I think I'm ready for a contemporary boat. My current favourite is the Capricorn, first because is the successor of my boat (and I'm pretty satisfied with the Taipan) - and it is the greatest looking F18 around. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I'd like to particpate on your personal experience with this boat, handling tricks which might be unusal, what to look for if I buy a used boat, etc. - in short: all comments are appreciated!

Thanks,
Kai


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: Baltic] #152053
08/09/08 09:07 AM
08/09/08 09:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Hello Kai -

Solid boat, well thought out, excellent build quality. I've owned one for two years, and have sailed extensively on Tigers, Nacra F18s and Infusions. I am quite happy that F18 designs all seem to have a slightly different "feel" to them, but still compete at very comparable levels across all conditions. If F18 is where you want to be, the Capricorn is a terrific boat and you won't regret the purchase.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: John Williams] #152054
08/10/08 10:23 AM
08/10/08 10:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline OP
enthusiast
Baltic  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Thanks, John, for your reply. When you sailed all the main players in this business (Tiger, Infusion, Capricorn) - can you distinguish their strengths and weaknesses? Just your brief, personal opinion ...


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: Baltic] #152055
08/10/08 11:31 AM
08/10/08 11:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 52
G
GBR6 Offline
journeyman
GBR6  Offline
journeyman
G

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 52
I got my Capricorn about 2 yrs ago after having owned a Nacra F18 for the previous two years. Compared to that boat the Cap is, as you would expect, a step forward. It is incredibly smooth to drive, especially upwind. I have found it difficult downwind in heavy airs with a tendency to nosedive. I think this was in part due to a 'bigger head' main that was perhaps to full and was giving too much power and part to me losing confidence. I now have a Landenberger main on the boat and it seems much more controlled offwind. The only build issue I would question is the daggerboards slots which leak at the bottom at the slightest hint of grounding the boards - easy enough to fix (and to avoid!)
For me the Tiger is a bit overlooked now on the basis it is not new rather than its' abilities and is a very good heavy airs boat. The Infusion I would say is a boat that is very easy to go fast on from day one and works well across all wind strengths, with the Capricorn you have to work it at bit more to get the best out of it.
Interestingly enough I believe a Cirrus just won the UK nationals - did someone say the sailor counts for something....

Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: GBR6] #152056
08/10/08 01:12 PM
08/10/08 01:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
That is what I like most about the class - the sailor makes the difference, but you can keep your brand loyalty, buy sails to suit, etc.

GBR6 - I wonder if you had the same Goodall main that I did, with slightly (40mm) more at the top. With the new 1m limit on the head of the sail coming into effect in January, I expect your new Landy main measures to the new rule and may account for the difference in feel. Here in the US, we get a bit less wind than you do in the EU, and therefore I will miss that extra bit up top in the typical conditions we see. I found that, even as the breeze built into the upper teens and lower 20s, the top of that sail was easy to spill off, which kept me more on my feet once I learned that trick.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: John Williams] #152057
08/10/08 04:26 PM
08/10/08 04:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 52
G
GBR6 Offline
journeyman
GBR6  Offline
journeyman
G

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 52
I'll drag it out from the cellar where it lies after being shredded in yet another pitchpole and measure it some time. It had a larger head than the standard Goodall most Caps came with. Upwind it was fine but downwind I struggled and the more I swam the more conservative I became and I think this compounded my problems. I stress the word 'MY' because the other Caps in the UK seemed to not have my problems and, given that I could sail the Nacra happily enough I came to the conclusion it was probably the sail.

Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: GBR6] #152058
08/11/08 04:32 AM
08/11/08 04:32 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline OP
enthusiast
Baltic  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
GBR6 - do I understand you right that I should make sure that a Goodall main comes with the boat I obtain? I guess this an issue when I come across a used boat. My local dealer offers one from 2006 ...


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: Baltic] #152059
08/11/08 08:56 AM
08/11/08 08:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 52
G
GBR6 Offline
journeyman
GBR6  Offline
journeyman
G

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 52
Hi Baltic - my comment was purely that I found the oversized main a bit of a handle in a blow downwind. I was the only Cap in the UK that I saw with this sail; the others either had standard Goodall or Landy's and they didn't apprear to struggle as much as I did downwind. They were better sailors though....
The Goodall sails to my mind lacked the longevity of Landy's. They felt 'thinner' if that makes sense but certainly seemed fast.

Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: GBR6] #152060
08/11/08 11:06 AM
08/11/08 11:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
dumb question, the original Nacra Inter 18 - is NOT F-18 compliant?

Could an Inter 18 still go boat for boat with the F18 fleet as long as it's not some top level event that requires measuring in?

Just wondering, since there are a few Inter 18s here with the carbon masts, and it would seem to be a lot of $$ to switch to aluminum mast just to be an "official" F18.

Any other differences between the Inter 18 and the F18 box rule?


Jay

Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: waterbug_wpb] #152061
08/11/08 06:36 PM
08/11/08 06:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
The North American version of the Inter 18 is not F-18 compliant. But it could easily be made compliant. Yes it would need an alloy stick and alloy bowsprit. With the cost of carbon masts these days your could probably work yourself a very nice deal if you wanted to make the conversion.

By the book, if you don't measure in and you don't comply with the class rules then your not an F18. But, in the real world at local events typically the fleet makes the call on the beach and it's pretty relaxed. At events like MidWinters and regional championships then it's going to tighten up especially if they are going to all the trouble of weighing boats.

Basically the carbon mast and carbon snuffer pole are the only things that keep the I18 from being F18 complaint. For a while the carbon sticks were allowed to race F18 but the grace period has run out.

You have your eye on I18 at a sweet price Bug? Mike was making noise about getting one two weeks ago.

Besides I've always wondered what the I18 could do with a super wing mast. I always felt it never got its proper moment on the water.

Last edited by dingram; 08/11/08 06:38 PM.
Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: David Ingram] #152062
08/12/08 03:17 AM
08/12/08 03:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
FYI, I ran a Steve Brewin main on my Capricorn that had a bit more depth and size in the head then the Goodall units. I have not found it a problem in the fresh stuff downwind. Make sure you keep the kite open..... do not overshhet and make sure you give it a good ease early when pressure hits. This will help give you a lot of lift on the bows.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #152063
08/12/08 03:49 PM
08/12/08 03:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Just saw that Kent's I-18 is still for sail, and given the price yours went for, there may be room to knee-go-she-ate

Either that or Mark H's T boat.


Jay

Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: waterbug_wpb] #152064
08/12/08 09:05 PM
08/12/08 09:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Either way, you're racing Portsmouth. Grab an F18 and race straight up. You can pick up a Nacra F18 for a song these days and still have only the loose nut on the tiller to blame if you're not hanging with the pack. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: John Williams] #152065
08/14/08 10:37 AM
08/14/08 10:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Quote
You can pick up a Nacra F18 for a song these days


I'm listening, but not a very good singer.. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Jay

Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: waterbug_wpb] #152066
08/14/08 11:52 PM
08/14/08 11:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 81
singapore
C
ckuang Offline
journeyman
ckuang  Offline
journeyman
C

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 81
singapore
Hey TA, was wondering if you could comment on the differenc ein handling between the Steve Brewin sail and the Goodall sail on your Capricorn? What made you decide to go with the Brewin sail?

Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: ckuang] #152067
08/15/08 12:45 AM
08/15/08 12:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
We felt the Goodall sail was a bit to flat in the top for our fat a$$'s. We weighed in at 164kg. Brewin's main whome he was developing under the Goodall badge, had a bit more seam shape and luff curve..... much more depth up high.


Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #152068
08/15/08 01:48 AM
08/15/08 01:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 81
singapore
C
ckuang Offline
journeyman
ckuang  Offline
journeyman
C

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 81
singapore
Sorry for sounding ignorant but is 164 kg heavy for F18? What's the ideal racing weight? Also, with the new sail, did you change your mast setup from the Goodall sail? Sorry for the questions but am interested in a set of Brewin sails for my F16 as they look like a really nice shape

Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: ckuang] #152069
08/15/08 06:02 AM
08/15/08 06:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Ideal is 150 to 155.

164 is not that bad if you have a grunty sail and are sailing in a bit of pressure. You do suffer a bit downwind with depth. We were originally 186 when we bought the boat and suffered bad in the light stuff and downwinds.

Did not change the mast settings that much. From memory we ran about 35mm to 45mm on the daimonds and mast rake at the lower gundgeon.


Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #152070
08/15/08 07:40 AM
08/15/08 07:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Although I agree 100% with your ideal weight for the boat there are those that feel 160kg - 165kg is ideal. So, it does depend on who you talk to.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Comments on Capricorn [Re: Baltic] #157595
10/19/08 01:54 PM
10/19/08 01:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39
I
iMax Offline
newbie
iMax  Offline
newbie
I

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39
hi baltic,

i've changes since last year from nacra's (f18's and infusion) to the ossie rocketship and found out that the capricorn is much stiffer than most cat's. it realy becomes clear in lesser wind (it just accenllerates with every breath). most f18 are not build as good as the capricorn. upwind there should be no faster f18 and down wind i also found out that it is realy improtant not to oversheet your spi. when you keep that in mind nosediving is not an issue. yes, when you put bundy or heemskerk on an prindle 16 they will probable kick your... but when you compare the results of amature sailors it is quite clear that the capricorn is realy a fast cat.

i myself have (unfortunately) decided to offer my 2007 capricorn for sale due to the fact that my two young boys do not offer me the time to go sailing for whole days. therefore i've decided to switch to kitesurfing. but i've your interested in a lightly used capricorn, let me now.

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