| Re: Mast weight
[Re: Darryn]
#152473 08/13/08 12:38 AM 08/13/08 12:38 AM |
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 201 Adelaide, South Australia simonp
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Posts: 201 Adelaide, South Australia | 1. Don't know.
2. I have no problem with you going over the max corrector weight limit up to 104kg, I guess if any one does then maybe a really heavy dolphin striker?
Simon BLADE F16 AUS405
| | | Re: Mast weight
[Re: simonp]
#152474 08/13/08 01:50 AM 08/13/08 01:50 AM |
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 502 Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia Darryn OP
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Posts: 502 Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia | 1. Don't know.
2. I have no problem with you going over the max corrector weight limit up to 104kg, I guess if any one does then maybe a really heavy dolphin striker? I dont want to change the platform away from being a Mosquito, a 10kg/heavy dolphin striker would make my platform overweight when I use it as a Mozzy. I want to use a full size F16 rig and attach the lead needed to bring it up to F16 weight. When I race as a Mozzy use the Mozzy rig and remove the F16 lead. Basically use the boat like a multiple rig skiff, fitting the Mozzy rig to race against Mozzies or the F16 rig if there are F16s to race with. Their are some other ways I can "get around" this problem but I want to do this in a class legal, transparent way. Darryn | | | Re: Mast weight
[Re: Darryn]
#152476 08/13/08 03:19 AM 08/13/08 03:19 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | Darryn,
*** Rule 4.6.5 For safety reasons the total amount of corrector weights is limited to 7 kg's ***
So you may already use 2 more kg then you thought your could.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Mast weight
[Re: simonp]
#152478 08/13/08 04:28 AM 08/13/08 04:28 AM |
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 201 Adelaide South Australia ratherbsailing
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Posts: 201 Adelaide South Australia | Darryn, I was told the weight of a Taipan mast fully rigged was around 25-30 kg.in a couple of weeks I will go and pick up the boat so we can get together and get the exact weight if you like.I see you are thinking of joining the fun you should of purchased the mozzie from ebay for more than the $250.00 it went for then added new beams and rig I seriously considered this option. ps picking boat up on the 21 august. | | | Re: Mast weight
[Re: Darryn]
#152479 08/13/08 05:06 AM 08/13/08 05:06 AM | Anonymous
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Unregistered | Two questions.
1. What does the Taipan/superwing mast weigh that is sold in Aus for F16's?
2. Grandfathered cats such as the Mozzie when fitted with a F16 rig will end up under weight. Adding the 5 kg max corrector weight for F16 to the Mozzie platform and it will still be under the 104kg min weight for F16 uni. Now the question. Whats the attitude of the class to allowing grandfathered boats to carry more then 5kg in corrector weights? This is a preliminary enquiry, I am aware of the correct procedure to change the class rules and I am not a F16 class member.
Darryn Mozzie 1782 Hi Darryn, as I recall Tim's boat weighed 92kg rigged with spinnaker. With the Taipan rig heavier mast 5kg? than the Mossie plus up to 7kg of correctors as Wouter stated, I would be guessing you would be very close to OK. But only weighing it all together will tell for sure. I don't think old Mossies could cope with the pressure put on the bows of the 1m taller rig. But the newer hulls like yours are very impressive bouyancy wise under mossie rig spinnaker, so I would give it a try if you can borrow a rig. If you are interested in spinnaker sailing. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Mind you don't under estimate the pressure put on the bow bouyancy by the taller rig and Square top main, I have sailed both a lot and my guess is it would make the Mossie tender. But a strap on the back should give you some wild rides <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />. Also don't discount the extra hobby horsing you would do upwind, that extra weight aloft is a pain <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. | | | Re: Mast weight
[Re: ratherbsailing]
#152480 08/13/08 05:29 AM 08/13/08 05:29 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | Darryn, I was told the weight of a Taipan mast fully rigged was around 25-30 kg.
Of a Taipan 5.7 (Capricorn F18) maybe, but most definately not on the 4.9's or F16's. My mast (including everything like 4 mm halyards, sidestays, forestay, traps, all blocks for spi and downhaul, spreaders) was 21.4 kg (from memory); basically, it was ready to be stepped. And I'm using 4 mm stainless steel 1x19 wires for stays. The bare mast section should be around 14.5 kg (13.5 kg to 15.5 kg is the range of reported weights). The rest dependents on how light you make the fittings = cost to benefit balancing. I went for low cost; with some care my mast can get under 20 kg when fully rigged as described above. 25-30 kg is waaaaay to high for a fully rigged F16 mast. I seem to recall that F18 masts don't go past 25 kg these days when fully rigged. Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Mast weight
[Re: Wouter]
#152481 08/13/08 06:44 AM 08/13/08 06:44 AM |
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 322 South Australia Marcus F16
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Posts: 322 South Australia | Darryn, I was told the weight of a Taipan mast fully rigged was around 25-30 kg.
Of a Taipan 5.7 (Capricorn F18) maybe, but most definately not on the 4.9's or F16's. My mast (including everything like 4 mm halyards, sidestays, forestay, traps, all blocks for spi and downhaul, spreaders) was 21.4 kg (from memory); basically, it was ready to be stepped. And I'm using 4 mm stainless steel 1x19 wires for stays. The bare mast section should be around 14.5 kg (13.5 kg to 15.5 kg is the range of reported weights). The rest dependents on how light you make the fittings = cost to benefit balancing. I went for low cost; with some care my mast can get under 20 kg when fully rigged as described above. 25-30 kg is waaaaay to high for a fully rigged F16 mast. I seem to recall that F18 masts don't go past 25 kg these days when fully rigged. Wouter Agreed....the rigg off gary's blade came in at around 19-20kgs with standing rigging attached. From memory the mast blanks we have here they are 15.5kgs bare.
Marcus Towell
Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
| | | Re: Mast weight
[Re: ]
#152483 08/13/08 05:45 PM 08/13/08 05:45 PM |
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 502 Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia Darryn OP
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Posts: 502 Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia | Two questions.
1. What does the Taipan/superwing mast weigh that is sold in Aus for F16's?
2. Grandfathered cats such as the Mozzie when fitted with a F16 rig will end up under weight. Adding the 5 kg max corrector weight for F16 to the Mozzie platform and it will still be under the 104kg min weight for F16 uni. Now the question. Whats the attitude of the class to allowing grandfathered boats to carry more then 5kg in corrector weights? This is a preliminary enquiry, I am aware of the correct procedure to change the class rules and I am not a F16 class member.
Darryn Mozzie 1782 Hi Darryn, as I recall Tim's boat weighed 92kg rigged with spinnaker. With the Taipan rig heavier mast 5kg? than the Mossie plus up to 7kg of correctors as Wouter stated, I would be guessing you would be very close to OK. But only weighing it all together will tell for sure. I don't think old Mossies could cope with the pressure put on the bows of the 1m taller rig. But the newer hulls like yours are very impressive bouyancy wise under mossie rig spinnaker, so I would give it a try if you can borrow a rig. If you are interested in spinnaker sailing. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Mind you don't under estimate the pressure put on the bow bouyancy by the taller rig and Square top main, I have sailed both a lot and my guess is it would make the Mossie tender. But a strap on the back should give you some wild rides <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />. Also don't discount the extra hobby horsing you would do upwind, that extra weight aloft is a pain <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. Hi Garry, My Mozzie already has 4.5kg of lead, I have been doing the sums for a while now and I keep coming up with numbers around 10kg of corrector weight for F16. Thats why I asked the question about exact mast weights. I keep an accurate spreadsheet of my boats weight plus the weight of each component so its easy to come up with a good estimate. Would always be nice to have more bouyancy up front <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I dont find hobby horsing to be a problem on this platform, topic comes up alot so someone must. I am going to concentrate on getting the mast/mainsail combo working before I fit the spinnaker. Has anyone measured the spinnaker pole stay loads? Darryn
Last edited by Darryn; 08/13/08 09:34 PM.
| | | Re: Mast weight
[Re: Darryn]
#152484 08/14/08 04:28 AM 08/14/08 04:28 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | Has anyone measured the spinnaker pole stay loads?
Not larger then a 3 mm dyneema lightweight line (500 kg break)can handle it for years. Just don't buy any of those imitation lines; I once saw a guy break such lines by hand when when they were rated to 300 kg break strength. Go for the real thing from a renowed brand. Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Mast weight
[Re: Smiths_Cat]
#152488 08/14/08 05:36 PM 08/14/08 05:36 PM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | Hi Darryn,
the upper limit would be the load able to lift the bows out of the water times a safty margin. Let say your 100kg boat is 5m long and it centre of gravity is in the 2.5 from the stern and the sailor weights 80kg and sits 1.5m from the stern. Than the maximum load would be 100*2.5/5+80*1.5/5=74kg. Apply a safty factor of 5 for dynamic loading and you have 370kg.
Cheers,
Klaus I assume that is the vertical component of the force? The stays are not vertical to the bows and surely rig tension and Spi load itself is also applicable?
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Mast weight
[Re: Darryn]
#152489 08/15/08 06:02 AM 08/15/08 06:02 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Well the lines I and other have been using ofr several years have not broken so the (angled) force on the bows can not be more then 500 kg. The angle is about 25 degrees upward and 40 degrees forwards. This suggest maximum decomposed orthogonal loading of ;
-1- max 340 kg directed inside on the horizontal -2- max 163 kg upwards on the verticle -3- max 326 kg forward along the hull
Checksum : sqrt ( 340^2 + 163^2 + 326^2 ) = 498.4 kg max line tension
Doe sthis help ?
More important is the fact that the fine Taipan 4.9 bows of a homebuild timber hull take the loading without any fuss or problems. I have only a very localized reinforcing in the bows. Some strip of carbon in the very tip glues agains the hull sides to distribute the point loads without having the individual wall buckline. The rest of the hull is as per building plans. Afterall the Bridle setup for the jib puts the hulls in front of the mainbeam in alot higher loading while sailing upwind.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
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