Hey TaipanFC, nah, I think your downwind was a lot more interesting than mine. Didn't know you had to go so far forward on a foiling moth but you looked really really fast. My next singlehanded boat will probably be a moth rather than an A class unless they start to allow foiling A classes <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As far as my downwind technique, can't say there's much to it right now. I'm stil trying to figure out the secret of downwind on the viper. much easier to figure the boat on the upwind, but down, not so sure. Tried playing the sheet downwind this weekend and found that by letting the mainsheet off a bit it really helped to power up the rig some. couldn't really see the benefit of playing it like crazy like they did on the tornado finals race but maybe need more testing.

This weekend should be great. Back to windward leewards again. Much easier than passage races and easier to compare speed etc.

Still trying to figure out the secret to really really great downwind speed.

funny thing is viper is so precise as a boat that even a few millimetres here and there on the downhaul, rotation, outhaul, etc, seem to make a huge difference to the boat so finding the exact right combi is really hard but definitely for the guy that can pin it down, the speed is amazing.

You are getting the right idea for downwind. It is almost like going wild downwind on the A, constantly working the main in conjunction with your steeting. Working the main is to help keep the drive forward in the kite and being able to work deeper and keep the apparant forward. Keeping the main cleated the whole time means you raise the windward hull too much and lose the ability to drive lower faster.

Have to stay forward on the moth as you need to keep your weight over the foils. Back too much means you increase the Angle of Attack and the bow lifts too much and the whole thing ventilates and decides to dive underwater quicker than a submarine. Lot more to think about for sure, but that was the fourth weekend sailing it, so getting better for sure.

hmm interesting info on the moth. But doesn't the moth have some trim tabs on the rudder to compensate if your weight is too far back? In that case, how come they dont make the racks further forward? Sorry if this is goin OT on the thread, but seeing the moth just flowing through the fleet of boats was very beautiful.

Foil on the rudder is manual and the angle is adjusted by twisting the tiller extension. Lot quicker to react by moving your body, plus with 30kg boat and me being 70kg, my weight is a big part of the boat on the water. Still learning about these foils and angles etc. Lot to think about for sure.

I can't say that I agree here.

Wouter

Wow, you agreed with me!

Thanks I made a typo : can => can't


I've found that my Taipan F16 sails plenty fast and deep with my main cleated; it is just that you have to get your steering right. Meaning to bear-off/head-up before the gust hits/leaves. Besides this is the only way to do it when solo under spinnaker.

But even 2-up we seem to get the best downwind speed by going deep with sufficiently good speed with a cleated main.

So basically, I think that assuming their is correllation between cleated main and deepness that it is at most and very weak correllation. In most instances too weak for most F16 sailors out there to justify them forgetting about leaving the main cleated.

Wouter

To say you cant agree with someone is not the political/social approach to take. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Rather I think you should state your experience is otherwise.

I personally have a different view to your Wouter. I believe the boat is less "choked" when the helm has the ability to ease the traveller a little with bear aways & then back to near centre when chasing the "grove" again. But obviously this is difficult to do when sailing 1 up. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

So Wouter, do you actually sail? Your comment really shows a lack of experience in some ways. I agree with Marcus, working the main means it gets less choked. And one of the other posters in another thread quoted something similar from the current F16 GC winner John Pierce in respect that the sails don't know which way you are going unless you trim them in the correct manner.

he sure does sail!

I found out on Sunday that he was in the REM race, didn't see him though..

Wow, I stand corrected. But pics?

how did you go in the rem race?

Pics or it didnt happen <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
http://www.rbossink.nl/nam2008.html
Results: http://www.wvz.vuurwerk.nl/uitslagnam2008.html
Here he is at the briefing somewhere:

there he is.....looking the wrong way mind you!!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sort of like spot Wally/Waldo isn't it? Thanks for your help Marcus! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Bonus points if we can spot Macca?

Halveway in the F20 and F18 fleet (25th out of 47); about the same as last year when I was solo, but this time the proper F18 crews were about.

I sailed as crew on a F16 owned by a fellow club member. We are quite pleased with this result. We have only sailed 5 times together (incl. these days) this whole season and this is about all of the sailing either of us did the whole year. We expected to do worse because of it, especially since the beam reach under spinnaker of the first 15 km really doesn't favour the F16.

We also started on sunday but we had to retire in the first race due to a dislocated shoulder of my skipper; no fun I can tell you. I had to climb over him to reach the tiller and mainsheet to prevent the boat from capsizing and gave him some additional hurt that way. I figured that going over was worse in this situation then causing him some more pain. Now you also know the reason behind the DNF, DNS and DNS for the second day. I have got to admit though I've rarely seen a guy so though and pain tolerant as my skipper; he never blamed me for making the least bad choice in a bad situation.

I see Macca did really well in final results. Still doesn't mean a darn thing when its comes to engineering though.


With respect to the other comment; if you hull raises to high under spinnaker then you have turned down too late. You can correct this of course by letting out some mainsheet but you can also learn to spot the gust sooner and take quicker steering action. For any solo F16 sailor this skill is an absolute must for lack of manipulators at the ends of your arms. I found the same skill really helps when 2-up requiring much less mainsheet sheeting. Result same downwind speed and depth but achieved by a different path way this time with the main cleated. Hence my earlier disagreement.

Wouter

Ummm, were we talking about engineering here (and specifically in this thread)? It is a cat sailing forum for those with interest in cat sailing.

But everytime my race results are investigated on the forums the next stage is always a stab at my public comments in the engineering field. This time I thought it smart to pre-empt this.

I have always said that I'm not a top cat racer as I have never aspired to be such a person. My claim to fame is engineering. Having said that, I'm not a bad cat sailor either; I still seem to reach mid fleet status in a serious fleet without doing any amount of training or making nearly sufficient hours on the water (especially this year; less then 10 hours before the NAM-REM). More often then not I use old or homebuild equipment as well.

That will be it from me.

Wouter

So why so few times sailing this year then Wouter? If you have the passion, you make the time, its possible. Specially when in Summer in Northern Europe it is daylight for so long and sailing is possible long into the evening. I know I certainly make the time to go sailing.

What is your point?

I have sailed just three times this summer, and I am about as dedicated as they come to high performance catamaran sailing. When you go at Wouter like that, you hit others as well. This eternal bickering gets tiresome, from all parties.