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Nacra NAs news? #153360
08/25/08 02:27 PM
08/25/08 02:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
As ever, just looking for some news. The official blog had the following post:

Quote
Waves appx. 3 to 15 ft.
N20 Alex & Nigel around "A" Mark

N20s started 11:15 .... Winds 15 to 18 Knots Followed by the F17s & F18s...


No news after that is a bit scary. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

http://www.nacraclass.com/NCW2008/north_american.htm


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: John Williams] #153361
08/25/08 09:53 PM
08/25/08 09:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 185
Florida
JMAC Offline
member
JMAC  Offline
member

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 185
Florida
Results from Day 1 are up......

Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: JMAC] #153362
08/25/08 10:13 PM
08/25/08 10:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline
Pooh-Bah
P.M.  Offline
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Posts: 2,490
On the Water
I'm most interested in the 20 class, but the F17 results are interesting (and surprising). Are those results (F17) right? Does anybody know if Chris Bachelor is running a wing mast?


Philip
USA #1006
Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: John Williams] #153363
08/26/08 07:06 AM
08/26/08 07:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
It's no secret that Wick and I like the breeze. There were times yesterday when the wind pressure dropped a little below our liking yesterday (waves were maybe 2 to 3 feet). For at least three of the five races, the wind was on at about 15 with some gusts a little higher. The 20 class has seen the usual strong showing by Nigel and Alex though they did have one bad race yesterday (as did most). Kurt Korte is really showing some great speed around the course as well. It was a long day with racing from about 11am to 5pm but the PRO (Matt Bounds) wisely chose to do so because the rest of the week had been forecast to be light. Wick and I raced pretty well and had great speed. The switching areas of pressure were a little tricky for everyone and there were a lot of hero or zero tactical decisions that went either way out there.


Jake Kohl
Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: Jake] #153364
08/26/08 06:52 PM
08/26/08 06:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 185
Florida
JMAC Offline
member
JMAC  Offline
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Posts: 185
Florida
Report is they had 5 more races again today, with winds building/shifting from 10mph first 2 races to 15mph 3-5. Standing in N20's remains relatively similar, with lighter crews scoring well early, then heavy air teams excelling in the later races.

Bobcat reportedly in climbing in the N17's, but getting a good challenge!

Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: JMAC] #153365
08/26/08 10:00 PM
08/26/08 10:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 185
Florida
JMAC Offline
member
JMAC  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 185
Florida
Lots of pics up from Day 2 now....

Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: JMAC] #153366
08/27/08 06:52 AM
08/27/08 06:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Yeah - a very frustrating pair of races early as neither side was consistent and if you played the shifts, you ended up going without pressure (unless you really got into phase somehow). One leg, the left would have pressure but you had to deal with some chop. the next leg, the right had the pressure. At one point, the wind at A-mark and the committee boat were 60 degrees different. We did what we could to hang on in those conditions and won the first race, tanked the next, and as the pressure built toward the end of the third, dug out of a bad "way back" 12th place position to 4th in one lap. Once the wind was up, it was a matter of getting a clean start and avoiding mistakes. Alex and Nigel, sailing meticulously, are very tough to catch.

Chris Batchelor does have the new aluminum mast.


Jake Kohl
Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: Jake] #153367
08/27/08 10:09 AM
08/27/08 10:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Chris9 Offline
old hand
Chris9  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Thanks for the updates Jake

Quote

Chris Batchelor does have the new aluminum mast.


Were the class rules changed?


Chris Allen
Nacra 20 Gertie
www.wrcra.org
Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: Chris9] #153368
08/27/08 10:30 AM
08/27/08 10:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Chris is sailing a 17.

Sorry Chris... no opening of the 20 class rules.

This is certainly an interesting time though.

You have A small niche class with 12 - 15 boats at nationals and another 12 to 15 boats that distance race and no real OD or distance circuit.

A huge price jump on carbon masts making the boats unobtanium.

A manufacturer run class which is now based in the EU... so... no local control

What is the proper way to manage the class. Nacra has three models.

Follow the Nacra 6.0 model... Basically stay with the class rules, reject all changes (NE spin package) until the platforms die.

Follow the Prindle 19MX model... (update the platform soft stuff.). The P19's and N5.8's changed the sail plans and then the class dies.

Follow the Nacra 17 model.... update the platform and switch out of the unobtanium carbon stick. Seems to be working out so far.

What do the sailors want from performance?


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: Mark Schneider] #153369
08/27/08 11:39 AM
08/27/08 11:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Quote
What do the sailors want from performance?


A cheaper carbon mast.

PC/Nacra should move to a different supplier. If that means than the design changes, then I think that's a pill we'll have to swallow.

Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: ThunderMuffin] #153370
08/27/08 02:37 PM
08/27/08 02:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
If memory serves, Southern Spars makes those carbon sticks. Is there any way to source them here for less money? Can't PC license a company or sell them the molds/design specs?


Jay

Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: waterbug_wpb] #153371
08/27/08 05:49 PM
08/27/08 05:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Quote
If memory serves, Southern Spars makes those carbon sticks. Is there any way to source them here for less money? Can't PC license a company or sell them the molds/design specs?

Jack says he's tried stateside but to no avail. Carbon is getting chaeper in China, go figure. Maybe that's where they should be built, cheap.(Bite my tongue).Then we'll be replacing them every race. I wish I'd never found out about the price hike, I find myself stressing over mast rotation more than ever. I've heard that the aluminum stick is only 4 lbs. or so heavier, if that's the case I'm all for it. It has more area which means they'd have to cut the sails down, but then again nothing else seems to be consistent one design( sails measure different, diff. booms, different tackers, different rudders,etc.) so why bother.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #153372
08/27/08 08:08 PM
08/27/08 08:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 185
Florida
JMAC Offline
member
JMAC  Offline
member

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 185
Florida
3 more races today. Winds started SE, then went NE, causing abandon of a race mid-day. Team St. Louis moving up in the N20's with a string of 2nd's. Bobcat pushing past young Bachelor (literally, forcing an OCS in one race). More pics up on the site, look for positions soon to see who needs to make a move on last day tomorrow.

Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: waterbug_wpb] #153373
08/27/08 09:05 PM
08/27/08 09:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 146
Crofton, MD
Todd Berget Offline
member
Todd Berget  Offline
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Posts: 146
Crofton, MD
PC can do whatever they want as far as suppliers go. It's written that way in the class rules. Last communication I had was with Southern Spars directly. The masts are made in South Africa (moved from NZ about 1 1/2 years ago). Southern builds blanks, then ships the blanks to PC in Cali. PC then does the assembly and fitout.

I had actually written the class urging them to research a domestic supplier (I recommended Forte). got no response. I know Forte has a mandrel that I believe is an older Tornado mast. Shape is different from the current sticks and I believe the T mast is alittle shorter, but then Forte has built 18ht masts off of that mandrel so I'm not sure why it wouldn't work...

Anyways, at this point, I would just like PC to make a decision instead of publishing outlandish prices which only scares people away from the product. Sailing companies are notorious for marketing blunders and this is no exception.


Todd Nacra 20 www.wrcra.org
Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: Todd Berget] #153374
08/27/08 10:02 PM
08/27/08 10:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 185
Florida
JMAC Offline
member
JMAC  Offline
member

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 185
Florida
Whoa, sorry! Day 3 results are now up and I need to retract my N17 report. CB still has BC by 3 points going into the last day. Yikes, stay tuned race fans!

Watch the race for 2nd on N20's. Team St. Louis only 2 pts back!

Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #153375
08/28/08 06:54 AM
08/28/08 06:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
There is no aluminum mast anywhere for a Nacra 20 nor plans to make one. I'm not sure what they are planning, if anything, to address the price of the carbon stick but I'll try to ask that question tonight.

As far as the racing goes, there's nothing more painful or distracting than hearing 405 lbs of crew weight slapping the waves with the bottom of the hull while your competition flies over and above you full on double trapped and smooth as silk! Arrrrggg what a painful day. All day was light and then lightish. Big differences in pressure across the course. Mike Hill made a lot of great decisions yesterday and handily claimed our 3rd place position and is now knocking on the door for 2nd. We took a walloping yesterday because of our weight and just not choosing well.

Today, the breeze should be up although it's going to blow from the shore (South south east). It's guaranteed to be pretty gusty and shifty and will be an interesting end to the event!

Saw Mr. Curry at breakfast again this morning and he had his game face on.


Jake Kohl
Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: Jake] #153376
08/28/08 09:19 AM
08/28/08 09:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 185
Florida
JMAC Offline
member
JMAC  Offline
member

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 185
Florida
You move well young grasshopper....but can you stay focused to finish the kill?!!!

Re: Nacra NAs news? [Re: Jake] #153377
08/28/08 09:29 AM
08/28/08 09:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Quote
There is no aluminum mast anywhere for a Nacra 20 nor plans to make one. I'm not sure what they are planning, if anything, to address the price of the carbon stick but I'll try to ask that question tonight.


Would a domestic supplier be any cheaper? If so, then it really IS the shipping costs that are pushing the price up, not so much the carbon or labor costs...

Could mast builders propose some quotes for building to PC for evaluation? THey could probalby place a bulk order for, say, 500 masts and then just pay a small charge for inventory storage. PC probably has relatively good data on how many masts they've had to buy each year, and could probably develop some idea of how many they'd use per year.

I would have thought this would be one of their criteria for licensing builder(s). Get the bulk rate on a production run, rather than having to place individual orders each time someone calls.

And if shipping it from Southern Spars to PC, and then to the customer adds so much cost, why not send the blank from Southern Spars (or whatever manufacturer) to the local authorized dealer directly and have them fit out to one design specs? That's why they're an "authorized dealer", right?


Jay

Thanks for the updates Jake and JMac. [Re: waterbug_wpb] #153378
08/28/08 03:58 PM
08/28/08 03:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Thanks for keeping us up to date on the Happnins.
How about someone start a new thread about the mast deal, it definitely needs to be discussed, and let's not Hijack this thread.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Thanks for the updates Jake and JMac. [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #153379
08/28/08 04:19 PM
08/28/08 04:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
posted in the 20 thread.

Did the cost of other carbon masts go up that much as well? F17s?


Jay

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