Announcements
New Discussions
Best spinnaker halyard line material?
by '81 Hobie 16 Lac Leman. 03/31/24 10:31 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Barging #156928
10/13/08 10:28 AM
10/13/08 10:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
What's the best way to deal with it? What are the rules?

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Barging [Re: fin.] #156929
10/13/08 11:11 AM
10/13/08 11:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
This situation is defined by what rules don't apply vs rules that do apply.

Rules that don't apply - 18 (Marks) and 19 (Obstructions).

Basically, the leeward boat can luff as much as she wants (up to head to wind - there is no proper course before the start) and the windward boat must keep clear.

Leeward boat is only limited by Rule 14 (avoiding contact) and 16 (allow the windward boat an opportunity to keep clear).

On a practical matter, a lot of "comminication" by the leeward boat will cut down on the traffic:
"Don't go in there! You're barging & I'll take you out!"

Real experience when starting at the committee boat in a big fleet - patience is your friend. Often the guy making the most noise (head to wind right behind the signal boat) will bear off with about 10 seconds to go and leave a boat-sized hole right at the committee boat. By hanging back and a little above the noisemaker, you can pounce on the hole.

It all depends on his ability to get his boat moving at the right time though. If he gets caught in irons, you're screwed. That's why starting at the committee boat end is such a low percentage maneuver. I only do it when the boat end is heavilly favored (bad RC work or really shifty wind) or the right side is so favored, I want to tack almost immediately after starting.

Re: Barging [Re: mbounds] #156930
10/13/08 11:16 AM
10/13/08 11:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Sage advice indeed.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Barging [Re: mbounds] #156931
10/13/08 11:17 AM
10/13/08 11:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
If you're clear ahead, they can't really barge you. So get clear ahead and park if you need to...


Jay

Re: Barging [Re: waterbug_wpb] #156936
10/13/08 08:08 PM
10/13/08 08:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
I have suffered from bargers and damage was done; took 8 months to sort out because the boat ABOVE ME did not apply the following rules-of-thumb and so then had to let the barger in and in the process damaged my boat

1, make it clear EARLY that the barger IS NOT GOING TO GET IN. I would suggest calling early (30 secs to go); "Hey <insdert sail number>, you will not get in here; I will take you high; you have no rights, there is no room"
2, If they continue..call them up again
3, "I am luffing in 5; you have no rights
4, 1,2,3,4,5
5, UP-UP-UP; you have no rights; I will have to alter course to AVOID you as you are barging in 3 seconds and I am counting down
6, 5-4-3-2-1
7, I have had to take avoiding action; protest.

I had the situation where the barger came in at speed and the boat above me DID NOT shut them out; they then sailed into me to avoid the barger; I could go no-where as I had boats below me and so there was a crunch; I was out of pocket for 8 months while it was resolved.

sailng can be hard when people don't know the rules.....

In summary

1, make it clear early that they are barging and you will not let them in
2, count down out loud so those around you can hear you
3, make it clear they will be breaking rules
4, PROTEST TO MAKE SURE THEY LEARN.

Last edited by scooby_simon; 10/13/08 08:08 PM.

F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Barging [Re: scooby_simon] #158020
10/23/08 08:52 AM
10/23/08 08:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
I
Isotope235 Offline
old hand
Isotope235  Offline
old hand
I

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
Originally Posted by scooby_simon
... make it clear EARLY that the barger IS NOT GOING TO GET IN.


This is good general advice. Although Rule 19 (room to tack at an obstruction) is the only rule of part 2 that requires a hail, the race goes much smoother if boats know each others' intentions. Surprise maneuvers in close quarters are rarely a good idea. That holds at roundings and crossings, as well as the start.

Regards,
Eric

Re: Barging [Re: Isotope235] #158022
10/23/08 09:44 AM
10/23/08 09:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
I watched a funny exchange between two top-level skippers at the F18s last week. One boat (W) was parked behind the committee boat when another boat (L) was creeping toward the line on a lay for the stern of the committee boat. Overlap ensued and after a eight or ten seconds, the conversation began.

L - "Keep it up, there."

W - "What?"

L - "Keep it up."

W - "I have nowhere to go."

L, laughing - "You can go straight into the committee boat for all I care, you've got no room."

W - "Well that would be just great fun for everyone, wouldn't it!"

L - "You can always bail, but you will keep it up."

W - "I see how you are! That's how they do it where you're from, huh!"

Starting horn

It was all I could do to keep my mind on my job - the exchange was hysterical and clearly the practiced banter between two front-of-the-fleet guys, one of whom had the clear and undisputed upper hand and the other of whom laughingly knew he was over a barrel. *Noodle*, that was funny.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 746 guests, and 173 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,405
Posts267,056
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1