You guys do try to complicate something that is rather simple.

Can someone in an official capacity within the F16 class please clarify which rule allows a team to change its configuration once the regatta has started? I've reviewed the class rules and cannot find anything that allows this type of change.

So unless I hear otherwise, by your class rules you cannot change your boats configuration once the regatta has started.

Corrections and clarifications welcome. Please PM here or email me at smalldog266 (at) comcast (dot) net

I just love the "the rest of the world has got it so wrong, and we are so right attitude"

There isn't anything in the F16 rules about configuration changes.

It is in the Sailing Instructions which be individually tailored for a regatta, conditions, competitors really, which is completely separate. Usually these say that the competitor needs to sail to F16 rules.

So whatever the Race Committee wants to include, ignore, change, it is up to them to note down in the Sailing Instructions. So if they want to allow indiscriminate rig changes, then so be it, but generally you would need to apply in writing to change configuration and the Race Committee would act on this request in some form or another.

Quite common in all the regattas I have been to all over the world.

Thank you for the clarification.

If I changed my rig configuration during a regatta I would only continue racing for the thrill of the chase and expect to be scored DNC or DSQ for the races following the change.

If I change a component of my current configuration because of damage I would apply to the race committee to continue to be allowed to compete.

Just the way I see it.

Short answer: NO.

Long answer below.

You cannot change your setup in the middle of a regatta. Never ever. There are equipment and crew rules preventing you from doing so (not F16 rules, but generic RRS).

For club racing you may ask your fellow competitors if you can do so in case of mitigating circumstances. If any of the competitor refuse, you can't change because if you do he will protest you and win the protest.

In any case the race organizer may choose to accept the change but apply the 'Wouter solution' as it will disadvantage the switcher no matter what and will get more boats on the water, something always good at any regatta.

Nothing could be simpler.

I don't see how it is different from having an incapacitated crew member on a two man boat (F18 or Tornado). Your crew can't sail with you anymore because he's got a bad case of the tourista/can't stand you anymore/developed a fear of water: You find a replacement crew but then any other boat can protest you and you will lose. But if you ask nicely a gentlemen agreement may be reached letting you finish your regatta with the alternate crew (From my experience with F18 sailors, a pretty unlikely event). And of course the race team may choose to score you as a separate boat like Wouter suggests instead.

So Dave, when are you buying one so you and I can go at it, Mano a Mano, sans crew?? ;^)

Currently I'm in love with my Infusion so it may be a while and honestly it will probably be an A cat if I move away from the F18.

As a follow up to what I said above; I think this closes this discussion!!!!!

Then if you have no intention of ever being a F16 owner or competitor, do you just hang out here to bust Wouter's nutz? Or are these real questions?

Real questions and I just want to make sure we are on the same page taipanfc, phill and scobby_simon have made it crystal clear. We do on occasion play in the same sandbox, this weekend for example.

So, are you saying that if a cat is raced in a distance race as Uni on day 1 it should also be raced Uni on day two? What if the crew is hurt? Or has child care issues, or has to go to work, etc?

Here's the problem, as I see it. We all have different issues to deal with, so somedays we can race two up, some days we can't find crew or crew has been hurt from day 1, etc. We still want to race, as it's hard enough to get the days off to race in the first place, so having your boat there, set up, fee paid and ready to go, then the crew bails on you, for what ever reason, just plain sucks.

I would prefer to get as many boats out onto the race course as possible, all days, regardless of crew issues, to include F18's and Inter 20's being sailed Uni if it comes to that, conditions permitting. But there is no -Uni- number for a F18 or I20, that I am aware of, is there?

Maybe there should be, as you can certainly sail them that way weather and skill permitting. Is there a P-number correction for no-jib + no-crew? I would much rather come up with a P number adjustment than keep boats off the course due to lack of crew.

Now, if instead the -issue- is trying to game the system by using crew on a windy day and then not using crew an a light air day, well, I am still undecided on that, since I believe the F16 Uni number should be a bit higher than the Sloop number, due to the lack of hands during a spinnaker take down on a windy day, but it is not and the Uni pays the price on a windy day, so they should be able to make it up on a non-windy day, or do it both ways, crew in wind, none for light.

So in theory, by having the same P number, we are saying there is no speed difference between Uni and Sloop. And if that is true, then it shouldn't matter to anyone who accepts that they are rated the same, in which configuration the boat is raced, from race to race or day to day.

But we both know that is not -politically- acceptable to some other classes who do not have that "flexibility" in their rules and ratings. It's not even acceptable to most of the F16 sailors here. I personally have no problem with it as I would prefer to see as many boats on the starting line as possible, even an F18 sailing Uni. The F16 class is not big enough yet to really split into Uni vs. Sloop, but maybe some day there will be enough of both to score them together and as separate fleets.

I'm not here to debate the issue because it's already been discussed at length in a thread prior to this one and there really is no need since the issue has been clarified.

You are correct, the debate was over a long time ago, that was just my explanation for sailing the F16 instead of the F18 or I20. I'm usually solo but there are times when, if I can find good crew, I would like to have them along, just not able to find them usually. We all didn't marry as well as you and Matt did!

But to answer your question, the P number is the same, so it should make -no difference- in an "Open Class" regatta, if the boat is raced Sloop one day and Uni the next, right?

Your arguement simply does not hold water. That's like me saying I'll sail heavy when it blows and then change crew to sail light when the breeze softens. Same DPN, but CLEARLY UNFAIR! So Tim if you change your conifiguration once the regatta has started and don't clear it with EVERY sailor in the fleet then yes you run a good chance of getting flicked!

Yeah, I understand that, and it's just as -fair- as giving both the Uni and Sloop the same P number.

But the F16 class has no minimum crew wt. rule, so I don't know exactly which class rule you would be in violation of unless it were spelled out in the SI's.

But for the sake of discussion, I will throw out a What If scenario, and it has already happened, so it's not unheard of. You put on a big regatta. Sailors come from 500 miles away to race for the weekend. The first day it is blowing 25+ gusts. Some of the Uni guys don't want to go out, so they team up and go out. Now, on day 2, it's only 15, so they wall want to sail Uni. Well, the boats that never left the beach on day 1 are obviously not going to have a -score- from day 1, because they DNS'd. Or should I say, they will have a score of 1 more than the number of boats that did sail, let's say 5 did and 5 didn't. So they all get a 6, correct?

Come day 2, all 10 boats go out as Uni. Do the first 5 that sailed sloop on day 1 get to count their scores from day 1? And do they get to count their scores from day 2, racing in a "different configuration"? And what if one Uni on day 2 gets all bullets, but on day 1 he wasn't out, but had all 6's. What's his score then? Say they raced 5 races on each day.

If it were me, I wouldn't care, I would be at the keg talking about what a great time we all had out there, racing, not crying about how 5 boats shouldn't have been allowed to sail on day 2 because they were crewing on day 1.

But that's just me.

Your class rules DO NOT permit you to change your boats configuration once the regatta has started.

For the record; It was YOUR class that requested the uni and sloop number be combined, so you did that to yourself.

If you want to play with others outside your class you will follow the rules and that includes your class rules.

And yet you wonder why attendance is down...This ain't the America's Cup, lighten up.

If we're losing the folks that will not follow the rules what have we lost? Do you think it keeps the people that follow the rules away?