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Sail-World article on Tornados #157835
10/21/08 01:07 PM
10/21/08 01:07 PM
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Petaluma, CA
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David_Melcon Offline OP
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-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: David_Melcon] #157836
10/21/08 01:23 PM
10/21/08 01:23 PM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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That text can mean anything. Without some details it is hard to guess what they want to change in the ruleset and how far the one-design idea goes. There is a large difference between SMOD and OD. I really hope they dont go SMOD.

Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #157850
10/21/08 03:33 PM
10/21/08 03:33 PM
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Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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What are the odds that Marstrom could provide 20 one design boats for 2012 and then sell them after the Olympics. Hobie could do that with the Tiger and that is what it will take to have a shot at the olympic slot.

If boats are provided... all of the development dollars are removed. Would provided OD Tornado's plus history keep the multihull slot for the Tornado class ... despite all of its baggage???

Could Johnny and Charlie's futile attempt with the hooter at the Olympics have doomed the Tornado class to the dead boat society? Wow!

Will the large Tiger world turnouts and EU Factory support carry the day for getting a multihull back into the circus?

Will selecting one of the older F18 designs help or hurt the F18 Class.

Any of the Olympic sailors would dominate the F18 ranks... Is that good for turnouts at the world level... eg ISAF grade one events.



crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: Mark Schneider] #157865
10/21/08 04:43 PM
10/21/08 04:43 PM

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Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Any of the Olympic sailors would dominate the F18 ranks... Is that good for turnouts at the world level... eg ISAF grade one events.

They already do, with the exception of this year where it was to close to the three ring circus.

Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: ] #157896
10/21/08 09:21 PM
10/21/08 09:21 PM
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New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
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Given what transpired at the Olympics and the current feeling within both ISAF and the IOC the switch to one-design from one-design development class is something that should have been foreseen. With the Tornado in its current state, it is an extremely well developed platform as it is. I think the trade off is worth the price if it secures an 11th spot for 2012. This would allow the multihull community time to find a different and suitable platform for 2016 and to develop the infrastructure needed to support the Olympic parameters.


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: windswept] #157913
10/22/08 05:18 AM
10/22/08 05:18 AM
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stuartoffer Offline
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One way to look at this is isnt the the tornado pretty much SMOD anyway...with a good 90+% of the fleet, and if Im correct all bar 1 of the platforms in the olympics were marstrom, using Marstrom hulls nad all carbon rigs being from Martsrom...that only leaves sails...and as most use Ullman anyway..... is it such a big step?

Last time Im muted the question of 1 design sails this was shot down in flames

Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: stuartoffer] #157914
10/22/08 05:48 AM
10/22/08 05:48 AM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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There are a lot of different gear in use. Most platforms on the top level is no doubt Marstrøm, but the gear on the boats differ. There are custom centerboards, spi poles, rigging layouts, booms etc. etc. in the current top level fleet. If you move down in the fleets you find different platforms still being raced. I would not say that most use Ullman sails. Gran Segel and Landenberger seem to dominate the spi market. Landenberger and Olympic are doing jibs and mains which many boats use.
Going SMOD removes the option for homebuilding, fixing and rigging. I would say there still is a large jump for the Tornado to go from the current ruleset to full SMOD.

If they moved for a full SMOD, I think Gøran would supply the boats for the games. He loves the boat/class.

Until we see a proposal from the ITA or get more details, it is hard to guess what they are proposing.

Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: Mark Schneider] #157924
10/22/08 09:26 AM
10/22/08 09:26 AM
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New Hampshire, USA
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Originally Posted by Mark Schneider

Could Johnny and Charlie's futile attempt with the hooter at the Olympics have doomed the Tornado class to the dead boat society? Wow!

I did ask Charlie to take a hard look at this issue before using the sail. I thought that this would hurt the issue if it was used. On Tornados, this is not the first time equipment has become an issue. At the 2004 games, sailcloth materials were one of many issues that crept up. ISAF has felt that this was a concern to them, the IOC and fair competition. I am not sure that it needs to go as far as SMOD as much as tightening up the class rules so that an issue such as the Hooter cannot pop-up at the Olympics as an issue. While other teams had experimented with these sails over the prior 12-18 months, only 2 teams truly looked at using the sail. The class itself should have been proactive about this and decided the issue before it made its way to the front page of every sailing magazine and website out there. I could not believe the amount of press and coverage given this issue. But it is very clear that this only served to make the battle to get multihulls back into the games much more difficult. I still believe that if there is to be an 11th event for 2012 that the Tornado and therefore the ITA is the boat and class to do it.


Tom Siders
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Tornado US775
Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: windswept] #157981
10/22/08 07:41 PM
10/22/08 07:41 PM
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Originally Posted by windswept

I could not believe the amount of press and coverage given this issue.


Although I agree that the equipment issue is not positive, you certainly remember that ISAF forced the second foresail into the class one Olympic game ago. This type of adjustment to new rules is normal, under the circumstances.

About the attention this issue received from the media, the more, the better. ISAF certainly verifies the media space received and more multihull related space is good news.


Luiz
Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: Luiz] #157984
10/22/08 09:32 PM
10/22/08 09:32 PM
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Petaluma, CA
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David_Melcon Offline OP
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Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: David_Melcon] #157985
10/22/08 09:48 PM
10/22/08 09:48 PM
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Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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So the ITA is thinking about keeping costs down by going to a OD class?

Is it going to be SMOD?

Didn't we just have this discussion? :P

Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: ThunderMuffin] #157987
10/23/08 01:13 AM
10/23/08 01:13 AM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Quote
We are looking at having a boat that can be supplied, that is one-design, has identical sails and is not subject to ever-changing advancement.


Seems like they want strict OD.. Will be interesting to see how this progress.

Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #158004
10/23/08 07:00 AM
10/23/08 07:00 AM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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Just to how many people will the new Tornado rule changes apply?
IMHO, apart from the Olympics the class is pretty much dead.

Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: Tony_F18] #158012
10/23/08 07:52 AM
10/23/08 07:52 AM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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I know there are respectable fleets in Germany and England. There are boats racing in several countries regions. It is far less dead than many other classes.


Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #158118
10/24/08 01:34 AM
10/24/08 01:34 AM
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Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
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If the Tornado class decides on OD sails, it will reduce the weight range the big T is competitive at. Classes that allow some development in sails such as Tornado, F18 and A class tend to have a larger band of competitive crew weight. I believe this should NOT be overlooked.


Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #158119
10/24/08 01:35 AM
10/24/08 01:35 AM
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Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
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The T class use to preach about how development within strict tollerances set this class apart from others, providing sailors with better quality gear, with increased longlivity and competitive pricing long term. It also allowed a greater range of sailors to be competitive and gave the home builder the ability to make all or parts of the boat them self.

Now they tell us how strict OD will be the best way forward for the class. Do they really believe what they are saying or telling ISAF what they want to hear?

Quote
Major changes are in the wind to revolutionise one of the most spectacular sailing classes in the world as it campaigns to earn its place back in the Olympic arena. Moves are afoot to completely revamp the class, breaking the old mould and transforming it into a more accessible, more friendly, one-design class with appeal to the masses, media and a new fleet of Generation Next sailors.

The idea is to transform Tornado racing from an arms race back into a sailing race accessible to everyone and conducted on a level-playing field. To have the racing decided on the water, not by a development program or technological edges. To have a new generation of athletes racing high-octane craft into a new era.

In essence, the men and women of the International Tornado Association are responding to the winds of change constantly blowing through world sport, to update and freshen the look of the fastest boat at past Olympics, making it a more appealing and attractive prospect to a rising tide of new, young sailors looking for the ultimate thrill - and Olympic glory.

Ideas mooted to modernise a class, already renown for its thrills, spills and spectacular speed and working zealously to return to the Olympic program in 2012, include a shorter and sharper racing format, a one-design campaign equipment kit available at the touch of a computer key or by phone call, a reduction in campaign costs to help attract a new wave of talent from new areas of the globe _ making it the boat for one and all.

The simplicity of having a one-design craft built to last available quickly and easily allows for a more defined, direct and faster route to the Olympics for aspiring champions.

'We have listened to and taken aboard ideas circulating in the sailing world, from the boat park right up to ISAF, and we believe it's time for a change and that we can lead the way,' said International Tornado Association president Carolijn Brouwer, 1998 ISAF Rolex Sailor of the Year and a multiple world champion and medallist in a range of classes, most recently the Tornado catamaran.

'We are looking at having a boat that can be supplied, that is one-design, has identical sails and is not subject to ever-changing advancement. In short, a multi-hull where we can contain the cost, making it more affordable to a wider audience and more accessible to a new breed of sailors.

'What we would like to see is a sailor in Botswana, which does indeed have a sailing club, able to compete with the exact same equipment as the world champion, the European champion, the Asian Pacific champion and the next Olympic champion.

'But, at the same time, build on the classes attractiveness to both male and female sailors while conquering new territories, encouraging youth development and keeping costs down.'

International Tornado Association vice-president Darren Bundock, a two-time Olympic medallist and six-time world Tornado champion, believes the boat is the most exciting and well-suited multi-hull for Olympic warfare.

'It's fast, media and spectator friendly, tests the skills of the best multi-hull sailors in the world and at the same time is durable and cost effective,' Mr Bundock said. 'Vote 1 Tornado.'

The International Tornado Association is hoping the 11th medal is retained at the 2012 London Olympics after it was initially dropped from the program.


Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #158120
10/24/08 01:38 AM
10/24/08 01:38 AM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Quote
Now they tell us how strict OD will be the best way forward for the class. Do they really believe what they are saying or telling ISAF what they want to hear?


I take it that was a rethorical question. Obviously (to me at least), they are saying what ISAF wants to hear to try to get back into the games.

Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #158151
10/24/08 09:33 AM
10/24/08 09:33 AM
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New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
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Agreed, this is from many meetings and correspondances between ISAF and the ITA. Some of this is at the prompting of the IOC for the ITA and multihull organiations and supporters to go back to ISAF and have them formaly submit an application to IOC requesting an 11th event. To gain support from within the IOC, the ITA has come up with going to One-Design. Is this is what is best for the class? I think only time will tell, but if it gets a multihull back into the Olympics and the one-design Tornado is that class, I would believe then that this is a very astute manuever on the ITA's part.


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: windswept] #158615
10/29/08 04:44 PM
10/29/08 04:44 PM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Some more information on the ITA site now: http://www.tornado.org

Site have been revamped for this effort.


Still not clear what this means, but it begins to look like SMOD?

Re: Sail-World article on Tornados [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #158618
10/29/08 05:29 PM
10/29/08 05:29 PM
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claus Offline
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I guess we have to get used to the new term TOD=Total One Design. It´s not SMOD as Marstrom will not make the sails I guess wink

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