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Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore #158962
11/02/08 03:58 AM
11/02/08 03:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
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North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
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Wouter  Offline OP
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Ambassadors Cup, Changi Sailing Club

Oct 28 2008


Category: Cat sailing


More like a Ambassador’s Pot Luck Roast as wind and tide conspired to make it a tougher challenge than before! This piece is aimed at the cat sailors who have been following the Taipan v’s Blade v’s Viper developments. The Ambassadors Cup is an annual event at Changi Sailing Club in Singapore where all the countries Ambassadors spend the afternoon enjoying sailing. This year 27 countries were represented onboard 35 keelboats and 15 cats took part - with no dignitaries onboard!

It ended up being a good measure of things. Normally the course is around Pulau Ubin, the little island that separates Singapore’s northeastern coast from Johore, Malaysia. But this year we ventured 5 miles out to the east of Singapore, out past the airport and some major land reclamation works!

the cat fleet consisted Twincats, Nacras, Taipans, Vipers, Blades and 2 A-Class cats, so a good mix! Singapore also suffers a 3.5m tide and so this can make it a challenge at this time of the year when the NE Monsoon hasn’t set in. Two divisions of keelboats set off first followed by the cat fleet. From the start, it was clear that the tide was going to play a BIG part, just how big we weren’t sure - till later!

Wind at the start was marginal, one on trapeze except for the A-Class, naturally! James zoomed off on the A while most of the 16’s struggle to get 1 on the wire. We’d elected to race the Blade to see how it fairs against the other boats. Most of it was predictable. From the start we had enough pressure to keep the windward hull up. Progressing further up the beat (5 miles), the breeze lightened and we couldn’t keep the windward hull airborne, the Taipans picked us off with more speed and slightly better upwind angles. The Viper followed our line and cruised past as the breeze eased up and soon we were sitting in 5 place. The tide was outgoing so was pushing the fleet towards the windward turning mark. James on the A-Class beat everyone to the mark by a good 15 minutes and we assumed, disappeared downhill never to be seen again! Next around was the Viper, followed by a Taipan and then the Hybrid Blade. At this point the breeze had dropped to about 2 knots and the sea was really chopp which made progress difficult.

As we approached the windward mark we could see what was really happening. The outgoing tide was rushing out at a good 5 knots and anyone who had rounded the mark was having difficulty in making any headway in the non-existent breeze! To ur surprise, James was there on the A-Class with a “welcome to the parking lot!” It seemed almost unfair to pop the spinnaker and start making some headway. Those without spinnakers suffered the same fate - pointing up to get speed meant going beam on to the current which just washed them a way off the course. By this stage the Viper and the Blade had popped their kites and were able to create enough apparent wind to drive back towards the Singapore shoreline. Anyone without a spinnaker was lost to the tide - BIG time!

On the Blade, we tried everything to get up to Katana, the leading Viper! When we had any pressure at all, we burned it off trying to get a lower line than the Viper, but every move we made, they just had more speed! There is one particular headland that you can slip behind a get a small respite from the tide. We watched the Viper go as close as they dared and then knew we could run about 3 boat lengths close to the concrete wall that forms the reclaimed land. That was their first mistake as the small overlap we were able to establish allowed us to carry them past the next mark. We made sure we carried Katana beyond the mark before gybing and giving them no room to get back inside us. Now it was a cat race as we knew the Viper was quicker in the conditions and the only difference was going to be who could get out of the tide first! Again we ran he Blade to within an arms length off the huge retaining wall, at risk is the daggerboards but, these you can lift!! We managed to eek out a 5 boat length lead by running as close as we dared to the wall, Katana meanwhile was forced to gybe back out into the tide…that gave us another 5 boat lengths and every time we diid it, we gained the same amount.

Sailing in Singapore is a unique experience especially in this, our off season. Another unique factor is that we sail through the threshold of Changi Airport and believe it or not, every time a jumbo lands (approx. every 3 minutes) it leaves a ‘jet blast’ on the water. We picked up one of these and made 3 gybes across the front of it to get down to the next mark in good time. At the finish line it was Blade, Viper, Taipan - all the F16’s with the spinnakers put to good use.

What did it prove in the Taipan v’s Viper v’s Blade ‘debate’? In light air (non-trapezing) the flat underwater section of the Blades bow ’sticks’ in the water due to more wetted surface area. The Taipan at the same point has a rounded section and less wetted surface area therefore generates better speed and good pointing ability. The Viper would have come past us 1/2 hour earlier than what they did if they had stayed off trapeze and allowed the hull to lift - this would also put the necessary load onto the tacking daggerboards and get even more windward ability.

The Viper is the ‘reverse’ of the Blade i.e. has its flat section aft of the daggerboards so in times light wind you can reduce the wetted area by pushing the nose into the water using the crew weight. Then it has the reduce wetted area and allows the Viper to move higher/faster than the Taipan and Blade.

Next, we’re going to alter the Balde’s rake a bit forward to get a little more power into the rig and see how much that helps. By the time our season starts, we should have it in full swing. This race was interesting to watch all the boats perform in varying conditions. when conditions settle in a bit more here we’ll do the face-off Blade v’s Viper…

For more pictures and info… http://www.csc.org.sg/photos/race/ambcup08/racing/index.htm


And a question : Do you think these pictures have been photoshopped ?

Attached Files
Last edited by Wouter; 11/02/08 04:13 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: Wouter] #158972
11/02/08 08:08 AM
11/02/08 08:08 AM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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Definitely shopped: look at the top of the jib on the boat on the right.

Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: Tony_F18] #158977
11/02/08 08:52 AM
11/02/08 08:52 AM
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taipanfc Offline
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Only one of the boats photoshopped. Don't know why it matters. It is before the start anyway whilst everyone was milling around so don't take anything much what you see.

Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: taipanfc] #158989
11/02/08 10:48 AM
11/02/08 10:48 AM
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scooby_simon Offline
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Originally Posted by taipanfc
Only one of the boats photoshopped. Don't know why it matters. It is before the start anyway whilst everyone was milling around so don't take anything much what you see.


If someone can be bothered to photochop a pic, what else did they change!


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

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Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: scooby_simon] #159018
11/02/08 04:49 PM
11/02/08 04:49 PM
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taipanfc Offline
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http://www.csc.org.sg/photos/race/ambcup08/racing/pages/am183.htm

Here is where your photoshopped pic came from. Again, does it matter? The photoshopping is quite obvious to begin with. And it is before the race too, so nothing serious going on.

Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: taipanfc] #159023
11/02/08 05:56 PM
11/02/08 05:56 PM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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Its a SIN!

Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: Tony_F18] #159302
11/04/08 08:24 AM
11/04/08 08:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
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Malaysia
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DucatiScott Offline
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Good to see you guys haven't lost your sense of humour!!

Of course its not photoshop.
It's just one huge Blade!
Actually both photos were taken pre-start as everyone was trying to sail AWAY from the start line due to the out going tide, which was extra big that day.

It could also be one of the last photos of F16 sailing in Singapore cos' when the Singapore Moth's come to our Club... it could change the face of sailing - we think we're light at about 120kgs - try the Moth! Fully armed it weighs about the equivalent of 1 F16 hull alone! An awesome machine no doubt about that. I think we have to realise that foiling is the future and it's here.

We're also opening the crate on another 'machine' that will also give the F16's a BIG run for their money here. Stay tuned, for the probable demise of the F16 Fleet here...

It's certainly going to be a good racing season here, that's for sure!

Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: DucatiScott] #159305
11/04/08 08:36 AM
11/04/08 08:36 AM
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scooby_simon Offline
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Originally Posted by DucatiScott
Good to see you guys haven't lost your sense of humour!!

Of course its not photoshop.
It's just one huge Blade!
Actually both photos were taken pre-start as everyone was trying to sail AWAY from the start line due to the out going tide, which was extra big that day.

It could also be one of the last photos of F16 sailing in Singapore cos' when the Singapore Moth's come to our Club... it could change the face of sailing - we think we're light at about 120kgs - try the Moth! Fully armed it weighs about the equivalent of 1 F16 hull alone! An awesome machine no doubt about that. I think we have to realise that foiling is the future and it's here.

We're also opening the crate on another 'machine' that will also give the F16's a BIG run for their money here. Stay tuned, for the probable demise of the F16 Fleet here...

It's certainly going to be a good racing season here, that's for sure!


OK, I'll bite, what is the new machine?

Moths are a real challange to sail; I'm not good enough!


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: DucatiScott] #159307
11/04/08 08:49 AM
11/04/08 08:49 AM
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Malaysia
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DucatiScott Offline
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ps
I forgot to add, here's our Events Calendar... if any F16 sailors happen to be passing through Singapore on these dates, then please come and take part. I'm pretty sure we can find a boat to suit most tastes!




Attached Files
csc-cat-activities.pdf (282 downloads)
Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: scooby_simon] #159309
11/04/08 09:00 AM
11/04/08 09:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 24
Malaysia
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DucatiScott Offline
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Actually 5 new machines arriving but only one will take attention away from the F16's. So far about 4 F16 pilots are waiting to see what the big deal is too. Soon as we open the box, will let you know for sure...

Maybe Singapore's heading for the 'fastest thing on water'! Volvo Ocean Race is here in 6 weeks with a showing of the Extreme 40 cats. Once the wind hits (late December) things are really going to get busy.

Moths are a challenge and fantastic to see flying... and do require skill/fitness.

cheers

Originally Posted by scooby_simon
Originally Posted by DucatiScott
Good to see you guys haven't lost your sense of humour!!

Of course its not photoshop.
It's just one huge Blade!
Actually both photos were taken pre-start as everyone was trying to sail AWAY from the start line due to the out going tide, which was extra big that day.

It could also be one of the last photos of F16 sailing in Singapore cos' when the Singapore Moth's come to our Club... it could change the face of sailing - we think we're light at about 120kgs - try the Moth! Fully armed it weighs about the equivalent of 1 F16 hull alone! An awesome machine no doubt about that. I think we have to realise that foiling is the future and it's here.

We're also opening the crate on another 'machine' that will also give the F16's a BIG run for their money here. Stay tuned, for the probable demise of the F16 Fleet here...

It's certainly going to be a good racing season here, that's for sure!


OK, I'll bite, what is the new machine?

Moths are a real challange to sail; I'm not good enough!

Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: DucatiScott] #159334
11/04/08 10:33 AM
11/04/08 10:33 AM
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taipanfc Offline
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Moth skills/fitness??? Second in the worlds recently was 50+! And the skills part, well I am beat.

Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: taipanfc] #159382
11/04/08 01:38 PM
11/04/08 01:38 PM
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Rolf_Nilsen Offline

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So Scott is going to introduce a new class in SIN. Has to be windsurfers, kites or hydroptere if it is the fastest thing on water.

What happens with the F16 fleet there then?

Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #159449
11/04/08 08:35 PM
11/04/08 08:35 PM
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taipanfc Offline
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But it is all yesterday's technology Scott! Still persisting on dragging your hulls through the water :lol:

Dec and Jan in Singapore going to be great fun. Volvo70s, Extreme 40s, Puma Moths doing demos (and showing me new weird and wonderful ways to capsize at speed). It is all happening!

And for the F16 fleet in Sing, they will actually be out sailing and enjoying themselves.

Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: taipanfc] #159485
11/05/08 02:17 AM
11/05/08 02:17 AM
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simonp Offline
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What are the Puma Moths? And does the sail on this moth look terrible or is it just me?

http://forums.sailingworld.com/photos/showfull.php?photo=1050

I don't think our catamaran fleet is going to be replaced by the moth just yet. As cool as they are (and yes I do want one) how do you launch them off the beach in a 3 foot breaking swell?

Last edited by simonp; 11/05/08 02:27 AM. Reason: googled it

Simon
BLADE F16 AUS405
Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #159486
11/05/08 02:26 AM
11/05/08 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
So Scott is going to introduce a new class in SIN. Has to be windsurfers, kites or hydroptere if it is the fastest thing on water.

What happens with the F16 fleet there then?

Fastest thing on the water? Its gotta be Jetskis! wink

There is an ex-catsailor who now sails Moths, at our last autumn cup races he starts with us and finishes somewhere in the back/middle of the fleet. (15-25kt winds).
He doesn't have an official handicap number so its not really clear where his "real" place would be.

Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: simonp] #159487
11/05/08 03:22 AM
11/05/08 03:22 AM
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taipanfc Offline
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Originally Posted by simonp
What are the Puma Moths? And does the sail on this moth look terrible or is it just me?

http://forums.sailingworld.com/photos/showfull.php?photo=1050

I don't think our catamaran fleet is going to be replaced by the moth just yet. As cool as they are (and yes I do want one) how do you launch them off the beach in a 3 foot breaking swell?


The sails that come on the Bladerider moths are really crap in my opinion, so definitely agree with you there. Actually getting a whole new mast and sails, that's how bad! But the Moth guys reckon they are quite good which is strange. Having heavy burdensome cams, an outhaul that is next to useless is just part of my gripes. Kind of strange, the moth class has just concentrated on foils, but it is the sails that get you foiling.

But they aren't for everyone, especially when you beach launch.

And recently one of the top moth guys beat one of the top A-Cat guys in 3 out of 4 races. Saw a report on the Internet so must by true!

Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: taipanfc] #159488
11/05/08 03:44 AM
11/05/08 03:44 AM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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I doubt they are crap, the sails are made by KA Sails which have an excellent reputation for their windsurfing (racing) sails.
I heard that there is a bigger sail being developed though.

Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: Tony_F18] #159490
11/05/08 04:11 AM
11/05/08 04:11 AM
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taipanfc Offline
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OK, to acknowledge "crap". KA are quite good and have a big reputation. But the sails are mass-produced on the moth and it shows. We have 2 Moths here and a lot of the seams don't quite match at all. When you get wrinkes in the sail due to bad manufacturing, then I see that as crap. Regardless of what trim you do (downhaul, vang etc) the sail just looks bad.

Actually some guys in Oz heard what I am doing and waiting to see the new sails I am getting and how they perform. They are very keen to make the switch over.

What is the bigger sail you are referring to being developed?

Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: taipanfc] #159491
11/05/08 04:48 AM
11/05/08 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by taipanfc

And for the F16 fleet in Sing, they will actually be out sailing and enjoying themselves.


As if others are not, or?
What I want to know is what is going to happen in SIN now that Scott and Alice seem to be focusing on a different class. The impression I am left with is that Scott and Alice are the ones who makes things happend for beachcat sailing in SIN. If they are refocusing on something else than F16s, local owners and the F16 class have an interest in trying to keep up the activity there.

Re: Race report Ambassadors Cup Singapore [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #159494
11/05/08 05:05 AM
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Best to speak to Scott/Alice in regard to that. Yes they are the ones who makes things happen. I don't have too much involvement and more just turn up and sail. With the A / Moth and yacht program, and this pesky thing called work, busy.

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