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More Prindle 19MX questions #15905
01/29/03 02:03 PM
01/29/03 02:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5
St. George Island FL
brycehale Offline OP
stranger
brycehale  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5
St. George Island FL
Hey, I'm finally getting the Prindle 19MX ready for the season. I got new dacron MX sails from Sabre sails, the MX jib kit from Krik Newkirk (Key Sailing), and Starboard Marine is reglassing, and painting the hulls. A new tramp from Murry's Marine. My question is with a crew weight of 300lbs total, it's going to be a handfull in anything over 12 knots. Any one have any ideas on how to handle it with so little weight, besides massive downhaul and traveled out? I guess sailing without a jib would look silly? It's a great boat but i'm seeing less and less Prindles out there....

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Re: More Prindle 19MX questions [Re: brycehale] #15906
01/29/03 03:40 PM
01/29/03 03:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Hi, Bryce,
From reading your post, I would say the options are obvious:
1. Gain weight
2. Reduce sail
3. Don't go out when the wind is over 12
4. Get a less powerful boat.

If the boat sails okay without the jib, I don't see any reason not to do it -- unirigs seem to be the "in" thing these days.

And you might want to talk to Sabre Sails about the possibility of making your main reefable and, if the jib does not furl, making it furlable.

It's good that you recognize in advance the need to have ways to reduce power.

Re: More Prindle 19MX questions [Re: brycehale] #15907
01/29/03 03:52 PM
01/29/03 03:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 334
Crystal Beach/Dunedin CSWY Fl.
catsailorp19mx Offline
enthusiast
catsailorp19mx  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 334
Crystal Beach/Dunedin CSWY Fl.
Hi,
I sail my P19MX mostly ever week, year round. In the winter (as you know we do have winter in Florida), my wife doesn't care to go out if it is below 75. I weigh around 205 lbs. with all my gear, and I don't really have any problems with main and jib to 10-12 knots. After that, I sail under main only. If the rig is set up right, I really don't see any problems at 12 knots with your 300lbs. Remember, the square top will vane, and move the power lower. The sail plan likes to accelerate the boat, with less heel than the original p19 sails. I have found that the rig likes her main sheet "tight". If you start running the traveler out (going to weather of course), you will find the main getting back winded from the jib.
Where I used to "pop" the windward hull up in the puffs with the standard sails, the MX package wants to accelerate the boat. Have fun, it is an awesome package.
Dave

Re: More Prindle 19MX questions [Re: catsailorp19mx] #15908
01/29/03 05:45 PM
01/29/03 05:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 62
Flagstaff, Arizona
Dennis Offline
journeyman
Dennis  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 62
Flagstaff, Arizona
I sail a standard P19, (sometimes solo) plus I crew on other P19s, including an MX. I weigh 165. If you have the upgraded rudders, sailing without the jib is an easy option. I put a roller furler on mine, and it works well for the standard sail plan. It's really not an easy option once you have the MX jib, although you can still run a standard jib or run without it.

If you have the old square rudders without the extended gudgeons, your mainsail can easily overpower your rudders and leave you with an uncontrollable boat.

When overpowered, Downhaul, and center the traveler going downwind.

Re: More Prindle 19MX questions [Re: Dennis] #15909
01/30/03 08:53 AM
01/30/03 08:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Todd_Sails Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Todd_Sails  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
That advice sounds like an easy way to do a pretty unexpected Jibe when driving down (off wind) in a big puff, that has a small windshift in it.
It would depower though.
Those accidental jibes are a b*tch, especailly with the hiking stick extended enough so that it won't go past the shroud on an accidental jibe. Talk about losing control, and I agree in regards to the rudders.


F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!

'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
Re: More Prindle 19MX questions [Re: brycehale] #15910
01/30/03 10:22 AM
01/30/03 10:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 334
Crystal Beach/Dunedin CSWY Fl.
catsailorp19mx Offline
enthusiast
catsailorp19mx  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 334
Crystal Beach/Dunedin CSWY Fl.
Hi Bryce;
Took a closer look at your attached pic. I noticed that you have the "old style" rudders. As was mentioned by the other posts, they have to be figured in (in particular..if you plan on sailing with MX main only. As per Randy's tuning guide, the balance of the helm is the combination of "mast rake" and the ability to "tuck the rudders" under. My boat came with the revised rudder set up, so it wasn't an issue.
Also, am my eyes going bad, or is your mast rotation "blown off"? Just wondering.
Dave

Re: More Prindle 19MX questions [Re: catsailorp19mx] #15911
01/30/03 11:09 AM
01/30/03 11:09 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Todd_Sails Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Todd_Sails  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Now that's what I call 'rotation'!

in the attachment photo


F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!

'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
Re: More Prindle 19MX questions [Re: Todd_Sails] #15912
01/30/03 11:25 AM
01/30/03 11:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 334
Crystal Beach/Dunedin CSWY Fl.
catsailorp19mx Offline
enthusiast
catsailorp19mx  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 334
Crystal Beach/Dunedin CSWY Fl.
Hey Todd,
Guess the eyes are still O.K., huh?
Dave

Re: More Prindle 19MX questions [Re: catsailorp19mx] #15913
02/01/03 09:56 PM
02/01/03 09:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5
St. George Island FL
brycehale Offline OP
stranger
brycehale  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5
St. George Island FL
Hey thanks again gang. I admit to not being up on current cat technology. Two questions: you said I need the new rudders? That sounds expensive?, who would have those? Second how much mast roatation should i have?

Thanks again, the cat sailing world is wonderful...

Re: More Prindle 19MX questions [Re: brycehale] #15914
02/02/03 05:55 AM
02/02/03 05:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 334
Crystal Beach/Dunedin CSWY Fl.
catsailorp19mx Offline
enthusiast
catsailorp19mx  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 334
Crystal Beach/Dunedin CSWY Fl.
Hi Bryce;
Please don't take it to mean that you HAVE to upgrade your rudder system. You can probably go out and still sail the boat just about any time you want with your present rudders.

I am not certain of the date (sure someone on the forum does) that the P19 went to the longer style rudders with the extended gudgeons. Because of changing advancements in tuning and sailing the boat, it was found that the boat handled better with those longer rudders, and with the ability to "rake em under". And from what I've heard, "it sort of makes the boat think it is longer, than it really is".

Now, with the introduction of the MX package, the max. potential of the sail plan is better realized with the "upgraded rudder system". Still, if you aren't out pushing the limits of the package, you can probably sail with your present rudders. I hope that I have succeeded in giving you info. You decide if you really need them. (www.performance.com).

Also, I would be inclined to ask for a "tuning guide" for your new sails from the sailmaker.

Got to hurry, someone else will explain the mast rotation...
Have fun
Dave

Last edited by catsailorp19mx; 02/02/03 05:57 AM.
Re: More Prindle 19MX questions [Re: catsailorp19mx] #15915
02/02/03 10:56 AM
02/02/03 10:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5
St. George Island FL
brycehale Offline OP
stranger
brycehale  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5
St. George Island FL
Thanks Dave and Mary for the info. I guess I will keep the old square rudders till i come across some new ones for a reasonable price. Buying the MX main, jib, new paint, and tramp kind of hurt the budget this year. I still feel that a centerboard boat is superior (durrablity wise) to the long daggerboard boats like the NA6.0 and the Inter 20's. I just cant imagine ripping out a dagger board box because you were sailing in unfamiliar water....

Re: More Prindle 19MX questions [Re: brycehale] #15916
02/02/03 10:41 PM
02/02/03 10:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 47
Sailor Offline
newbie
Sailor  Offline
newbie

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 47
Bryce,

I just sold my P19 last fall and took it out several times with main only on windy days when I was solo. It is quite a thrill to sail such a large boat alone with only a few controls. Give it a try some time. It will also help improve your skills as you don't have the jib to push the bows over during a tack and you must be more careful when sailing.

Have fun!

Re: More Prindle 19MX questions [Re: brycehale] #15917
02/03/03 12:58 AM
02/03/03 12:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 364
Andrew Offline
enthusiast
Andrew  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 364
I have the square rudders on a P-19 Classic (pinhead) and the only time I see any problem with them is when I'm tacking, I can look down into the water and see the tips cavitating. There are obvious trails of bubbles in the water coming off the tips. So far it hasn't been a problem (I'm a big guy, and I can drive the sterns REAL deep in the water when I need to) but if I start having trouble, especially with the big chute, I'll certainly upgrade the rudders. Jack at Performance quoted me about 400 for a set of the new-style blades, but for now, I'll stay square...

sail fast


Andrew Tatton Nacra 20 "Wiggle Stick" #266 Nacra 18 Square #12
Re: More Prindle 19MX questions [Re: brycehale] #15918
02/03/03 01:00 PM
02/03/03 01:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 74
Fulshear, TX
SGalway Offline
journeyman
SGalway  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 74
Fulshear, TX
DOWNHAUL, DOWNHAUL, DOWNHAUL... Get a 16:1.

That is the only way to sail the MX with underweight crew. We own an MX, and my wife and I tip the scales at 270 combined. She is not so experienced, but knows how to hold on when the going gets rough. I would say I am pretty experienced in heavy air.

We have successfully taken a 25+kt beating for a sustained 30-45mins while going to weather during the last Bandit Run. The main was inverted for most of the time, but never were we in danger of a capsize. Just strap everything so you essentially have two blades aloft. Oh, and one more thing, trap till it burns.


Shannon Galway
Fulshear, TX
YoNav! Flying Phantom
www.yonav.net

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