Interesting math averages and windspeed category movements to current ratings , some glaring inconsistantcies like 18 sq ratings where one moves 10 points from light to high wind speed category ,-and the heavier N version 18 sq only moves 5 ,-which seems reverse of a heavier boat in higher winds , but that is not the point of this post .
Problems of expanding the use of P-RATING for distance racing is .

Interesting ,-in many class windspeed categories the slow rated cats move 12 or 13 points and faster modern cats move only 3 or 4 over the same windspeed 4 category range .
Remove the inconsistancies caused by skippers times and the total picture indicates slower cats increasing relative speed at a much higher rate as the wind increases .
That is,-- the actual time difference between different class cats becomes smaller and smaller as the wind increases .

The real problem as applied to distance races like the Tybee or Texas 300 is that determining which of 4 categories of windspeed was present over sometimes 100 mile legs and going through sometimes numerous different weather fronts ,local storms , and very different wind conditions offshore or near . it is imposible -

-So ,-a base P rating number is used.---all upwind all downwind -whatever ,- P of course is based on typical short buoys racing up and downwind .Some cats are downwing flyers like non board types ,-and some excell upwind -boarded high aspect ratio sail types .

P-rating is based on average time ,--it assumes all skippers that win in a class category as recorded have sailed their boat to maximum speed potential .
The difference between skill level of skippers in different classes is well known .
Many classes now have 3 or 4 novice or new racing in class.

Another problem is what these unapplicable windspeed categories indicate,- though irradically .--It Demonstrates further the unverifiable aspect of skippers abilities leading to these types very illogical inconsistancies .

Quick rough estimate to illustrate the time narrowing aspect between cats --
P rating is based on the time it takes comparitively to sail equal distance to rating .
One cat with P rating of around 80 ,as some 16s are -another with a rating of around 60 -as some newer boats like N -6/0 S are.
A difference of 20 or 25% total .One traveling at max speed 20 mph for an hour ,-the other to equal it per P-rating traveling 25 mph .--seems almost possible ,-but are cat designs really that different at the much higher total top speeds they can achieve with one hull skimming the surface crews trapped out .?
Take these ratings and speeds over a 120 mile distance race leg . If the slower rated cat can sustain 20 for 6 hours and they both travel the same course -distance and same wind conditions throughout the faster rated cat needs to finish 30 miles ahead to tie .

Compounding this distance racing senario is windspeed often drops at sunset ,-the last 30 miles may drop boat speed to 3 mph taking another 10 hours to finish .
-
This example is exaggerated but illustrates several problems with P rating applied to distance races like the Tybee or Texas 300 races .

The other large problem w P-rating is modifications .
A seldom competitively raced low rated boat any length inc 20s could add huge spin area ,-or larger mainsail giving it further huge handicap rating advatage .


Suggested these races be oriented to Formula or equal rated boats in class categories , not a P group . By class or class category is the only fair way they can be scored .

An improved combination design based rating would remove the more novice skipper related inconsistancies in timed only rating and correct for sail areas or spin sizes accurately .
It encourages equal classes by defining cat design .

Handicapping is great ,-but lets apply it honestly and appropriately . The ideal type being an individual handicap that would really help encourage new sailors into the sport .

Looking forward to the Worrell 1000 and the next year hopefully open to all Formula 18 hts for that event . We need all our distance races to encourage class racing for the reasons stated above , Formula and equal rating classes ,-add an open and unlimited class category for real fun like the older Worrell 1000s were .
have fun ,-its sailing
Carl

P rating -handicap problems - summery

1- inconsistancies of skippers abilitities and no means of verification of accuracy ,
A faulse base assumption that leads to these.

2-NON applicable Windspeed categories with no
possible way to disern or apply them .

3 A narrowing of actual rating numbers as wind speeds increase not reflected in one base rating

4-modifications to existing boats and no accurate consistant means of rating -spin and sail area sizes -etc

5-large speed and time differences that change in relation to conditions over a much broader total speed range ,--also between different cat classes .

The ideal fair way to race is in categorical class ,-Formula or equal design rating .
Include an unlimited class as well .

The solution proposed is to use Tex design base rating , and add the spin calc method used in ISAF to improve it for existing classes with various chute sizes to accomodate them.
An upper windspeed on trap category added,
apparent to all racing-{you know if your on the trap or not } based on noaa weather forcast for the coastal area.
And adding long term P-rating applied to older design per criteria and original form to help older designs stay competitive.

The idea of design rating is to encourage
categorical class racing like formula .



Looking forward to the Worrell 1000 and the next year hopefully open to all Formula 18 hts for that event . We need all our distance races to encourage class racing for the reasons stated above ,and many others .
Formula and equal rating classes ,-add an open and unlimited class category for real fun like the older Worrell 1000s were . Interesting fun creative development for catamarans.

If you just want to sail slow you may as well sail the floating bathtub type sailing craft and use your average handicap
@#$$#@ times -

Cat racing historically has always been about creating faster sailing craft by sailors who enjoy sailing fast and faster.

Why do most all new designs come from overseas now ?
evan our Hobie cats ? ?

Wake up ,--



have fun ,-its sailing
Carl

Despite your condescending comments Carl we are awake and we are not as stupid as you portray us.
We are well aware of the limitations of ALL handicapping systems( those of us who actually race that is).
Do you actually imagine that you have thought of something that no one else ever did?
The incredible conceit and pomposity of you continual tirades is amazing.
All you have to do to "prove" the value of your system is to get off your dead butt and start your own Regatta, as you told me you were going to do last year, and use your system and see who shows up.
Why don't you make it the FIRST NAF 20 NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS and put up a big cash prize and see?
Put something where your mouth is.

cranky old farts ?

we -we -we Samy -

First a number of us in MI did have the MI-100 DISTANCE RACE which was very successfull.
last year the P-Nationals were in T C mi , CRAM did not want a schedule conflict .
We hope to renew a MI -200 miler this Aug.

look in the mirror to see a pompus conceited do nothing big mouth Sammy , Amazing how you types always attempt to transpose your own limited experience and self inept characteristics onto others.

Sammy I am not imposing anything on YOU personally ,-I do not know you ,-do not want to . Do not want you to change your racing or little group in any way .

Why are you so threatened by ideas and concepts for rating ,-or class racing ,-or design concepts --
why should this invoke a personal reaction onto someone you do not know.

If you comprehend some aspect of the combination rating system that may not reflect rating solutions in your opinion please post those .
Conceit is pretention and self conclusion sammy ,-

Obviously this and other info on developing a better rating system is posted in the hopes of recieving research information from others on the forum .

Get off the personal crap sammy , it just displays what a hypocrit sounds like .