Lots of places we have sailed have sea grasses floating on top of the water that catch on the daggerboards and rudders. This is especially true of small inland lakes in the Midwest in late summer, but it is also a problem on Biscayne Bay in Miami. On a two-person boat, it is usually the crew's job to keep making the rounds of the boat, raising and lowering daggerboards and rudders to free them of seaweed during a race.

My question is, what do you do if you are a singlehander and have all those foils to keep clearing constantly? Does anybody have an answer to this?

I read something in the Laser Newsletter about this, because they have the same problem. Apparently, some people were trying spraying their daggerboard and rudder with McLube to see if weeds would slide off better, but the editor said he tried it for half of the races in one regatta and he could not see any difference.

Laser sailors also do some spectacular rolls one way or the other to dump the weeds, but it doesn't sound feasible for catamarans.

Another thing Laser have tried is sailing with their rudders **** up more so weeds will slide off, but this is not legal for those boats except in shallow water, because there is some evidence that tilting the rudders up more makes the boats go faster.

For catamarans someone made the not serious suggestion that the fronts of the foils could be made razor-sharp so they just cut through the grass -- hmmm, and anything else they might come in contact with, like a crew member falling off the boat.

Anyway, what do you singlehanders do about the grass problem?

On my H17, this isn't much of a problem because the grass slides over the centerboards easily. If it gets stuck on the rudders, I just pop them up real quick to dump it. Never really come though a lot of grass, just some reeds that are natural on the chesapeake bay.

I raced a Hobie 18mag around the country one summer a few years back. Ran into the same problem, but I remembered something I read about the old America's Cup boats.

I read something about flossing the keel to keep it clean under sail. So I made two "flossing sticks". I used 2-3' pieces of PVC tubing. Drilled holes in them so that water would run right through. I unbraided some old mainsheet line and attached it to the ends of each small pole.

They looked like little mops, but boy did they clear weeds out of the rudders fast. Just floss the daggers and rudders real quick and they were clean. Cost $2 to make.

Hi Mary,
I would probably rather deal with "big wind" than have to put up with the weeds. Thankfully, we don't get much of it here in the Gulf. Although, it does show up at different times of the year.

I am "assuming" your question is directed towards racing. Sorry if my assumption is incorrect.

When I single hand my P19 in distance races, (depending on wind strength) I either clear the boards manually, or lift the windward hull & "usually" they slip off. As you well know, the rudders aren't that easy to dis-engage on the Prindle system.
The windward rudder "usually" clears when out of the water.
No matter how you cut the cake, valuable time is lost when you do this without a crew.
Dave

Hi Mary -

On the 4.3, popping the offended rudder up and back down quickly works for me, though I usually have big eyes while doing it . A boardless boat is probably infinitely easier to keep moving through grass, because your hand never comes off the steering when clearing the rudders, even on the low side.

On bigger boats, I'm always the guy scrambling around as the skipper freaks out. The kelp forests in Santa Barbera were particularly interesting!

A nice thing about the pivoting center boards on my Mystere is they can be cycled without having to go to the low side to do it. The rudder is part of life.

Thanks, all, but I think it is impossible. Picture this: You're singlehanding a Taipan 4.9 in a distance race on Biscayne Bay. You are out on the trapeze. You are steering and handling both a mainsheet and a hooter sheet. You need to clear grass off your leeward board and rudder. What conceivable way would there be to do that without coming in off the trapeze, heading up and basically stopping the boat? And you have to repeat the procedure very frequently.

I've got it!! A Portsmouth modification factor for grass!

^ Please god no.

Ratings-Man will invade and write a 10-page thesis on the conceivablility of such an idea.

Your right Mary...Picking up a clump of grass while racing singlehanded is very frustrating. As was mentioned earlier the boards are no problem for us H17 sailors. If you have to dump the main to unload the rudders, go to the back, raise and lower a rudder, you can loose a lot of ground. I do the following: First keep a sharp eye on the water ahead and try to dodge the clumps. If I do pick up a clump and I'm considering a tack anyway, I tack and hope it will come off. If its on the weather rudder I try to fly the hull to get it to drop off. Downwind I use only one rudder. Otherwise I just take the hit and go back and clear it...Dan

Believe it or not,
But on “our” lake they cut the grass twice a year.

And do they rake up the grass after they cut it? And then what do they do with all that grass?

My boat has three T-foils. Each "T" is about three feet wide. This boat can roll a lot of grass.

Going down Biscayne Bay in the Conch Cup was memorable for it's grass. I could only come up with one solution that worked reasonably well (short of going out there on the hulls to clean it off by hand). I stopped the boat and sailed backwards three or four times and that usually slid (slid?) most of it loose. Don't feel bad about doing it. The big long distance boats (eg. VO 60's) do the same thing to deal with the problem when it's caught on their keels.

During a race it should not cause you to lose time or position on the competition, all racers would have the same conditions? (maybe) jmo

That would be the case if it were a one-design fleet or if it were a mixed Portsmouth fleet of all two-person boats. But if it is a mixed Portsmouth fleet where most or all of the other boats have two people and you are on a single-hander .....

Really, folks, never mind. There is no good solution to this problem other than having a crew.

Wow, I didn't even think about the problem hydrofoil boats would have with grass. Could a big patch of grass potentially cause a pitchpole?

the only fully flying International 14 (foiled) had its foils destroyed when they ran through a "pod" umm "school" umm "bunch" umm a "blubber" of jellyfish..
So gues a pile of seas grass would b even more effective at foil destruction

No. Grass collecting on the foils will not cause a pitchpole because an accumulation will cause the foils to lose their ability to fly and the boat simply will come back to the water very slowly. While flying I don't seem to have the grass problem because hitting it and moving at 25mph in Biscayne Bay causes enough action to keep the foils clear.

If sailing backwards for a few feet doesn't clear the stuff it's a real pain. You have to come up into the wind, raise the three foils from their position extended 4' down into the water and walk out on the beam to reach down and clean the stuff off each foil and the rudder, as well. The boat is 17' wide and it takes a little while to reach all the spots. While single handing it's a heads-up operation and "one hand for the boat" doesn't make it an easy chore.

In the Conch Cup I think I cleared grass only three or four times. I was too lazy to do it more often.

Mary-
You would have to rig up a different up/downhaul mechanism on your Taipan. One solution that might work is a modification of the system often retrofitted to N 5.8/6.0's that I employed on my old "A" cat. I had a bunji uphaul and rigged a line downhual. The rudder downhaul line ended in the front of the rudder in a "cutout" ala the Nacras then ran under a bolt in the rudder housing, up over another bolt at the top of the housing under the tiller arm and ended in a microblock. Then a second line ran from the back of the rear beam, through the microblock, and back to a cheekblock mounted atop the rearbeam (on the Taipan this line would have to run through the rear beam then through a throughdeck block in the front of the rear beam or through a microblock/cheekblock mounted under the inside of the rear beam- If you choose the under beam mounting location then the end of this line needs to be from the outside of the rear beam) and then towards the midline of the boat along the rearbeam to a releasing camcleat (made for dinghy rudders- it releases upon impact and is adjustable) and then I ran it through a plastic line guide (so simply pulling it on the other side of the line guide would cleat it). The line was continuous between sides and I used small Spectra lines. The rudder could be released by merely uncleating from the cam cleat (you did have to go to the middle of the boat in my case but you could mount the cleat wherever) and then quickly pulling the line down.
Remember though- you really do NOT want the rudders "loaded" when they are part way up or down regardless or you will break/bend/tear up either the transom pins, rudder case and/or rudders so regardless you will have to at least slow down and ease sails during the process.

Hope this might help-

Kirt

Mary,
I have made a similar system as mentioned by Kirt for my son's Paper Tiger.
The main difference being two rubber rings inside the rear beam. (They were the type used here to joint clay sewer pipes. Takes a good load to stretch them but the still cushion impact and will stretch when you run aground).

There is a continuous line between the rudder cleats , which are located just in front of the rear beam, and the slack in this line is pulled forward by a light shock cord.
The end result is you can flip both windward and leeward rudders without moving from your normal sailing position.
When it comes to centreboards they can be controlled by uphaul and downhaul lines.
If you go to my web page www.geocities.com/phillbrander choose Chined Construction the 32nd photo shows the steering system, cleats and line.
In the photo the line is taught because both rudders are up.
The first time a rudder was release to remove the weed it came up so fast it thru the weed past the centrecase.
The shock cord inside the carbon rudder tube is getting a little tired after two seasons and now needs replacing.

Just the way I've tried to approach the problem.
I'll be putting the same system on my new Taipan when I build its steering system.

Phill

Thanks, Phill, for mentioning pull-up and pull-down lines for daggerboards.
I have pullup lines for my NACRA 55uni daggerboards, copied from a local guy who sailed solo all the time. Main use is to avoid crossing to the leeward side of boat to raise boards at windward mark, when wind is blowing. I can also drop the boards right before a leeward mark rounding without changing sides. It is also useful for beaching, and to clear daggerboards of seagrass, which has happened to me.
Description : I mounted a cleat on deck next to the board. Behind the cleat is a turning block that leads the line up to a bullet block on the shroud/sidestay, said line then attaches to top/handle of board. It is same on both sides, continuous line across the tramp.
I have not installed pull-downs, I let gravity do the work, but there are compromises. If gravity can pull them down, then they are pretty loose in the wells, and in light air, will flop around a bit. They also may not drop completely due to being loaded (i.e. going upwind already before remebering to drop), or because of friction between board & hulls, etc. I'm considering adding pull-down lines, but don't like too many lines.
Hope this gives you something to think about, Mary.

Itis likely some hull designs do not have daggerboards placed near the shrouds, so system with block above the board may not work. An earlier version of the pullup system had the "pullup" turning block *IN* the daggerboard itself, positioned so it was still "inside" the hulls when fully lowered. Bsed on hull "depth" and board length, his meant that board could not be fully raised, and coming to the beach required manual removal of boards.

Jim-
Mary was asking about a Taipan 4.9 and there are "pullup" lines on the boards from the factory w/ the lines integral in the board "cutout" as you describe (see attachment). It is a fairly simple matter to rig a "pulldown" line to the Taipan (and Auscat's they are modeled after) boards by adding a second set of eyes (or standup blocks if you wanted to get fancy) next tot he standard "pullup" eyes with a line from the top of the board "handle", through the eye and across tramp to other board. Line lengths are set so when board is up/down the line you would want to pull is fairly snug across the tramp and a simple tug up, back or forward will raise/lower both boards simultaneously. Very handy on solo boats!

Kirt

Kirt, Rick says the pull-up daggerboard system that comes with the Taipan 4.9 does not pull the boards up high enough to clear grass.

What we really need is a remote control -- just push buttons on the remote and the daggerboards and rudders go up and down .

^ What weight you'd put on in electric motors and batteries you'd not benefit enough by merely clearing your surfaces of seaweed

C'mon, don't ruin a good dream with practicalities.

Mary-
Hmm, the boards are only down a few inches at most with the current system- You could either raise up the little "eye" on the deck a couple of inches, round off the front of your boards (separate set of boards?), route out the "groove" and drill a new hole so the current system would raise them enough, or put a "weedless" type SS "spring" (along the lines of weedless fishooks) on the bottom of the hull sticking down just far enough to keep the weeds/clear the weeds off the few inches not drawn into the well.

Kirt