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Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: davefarmer] #159230
11/03/08 08:22 PM
11/03/08 08:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
I can't take the credit for that design. Rick Harper (a local a-cat sailor) chopped up an MC scow dolly to make the predecessor to mine. I'm sure someone else somewhere else has had a similar setup.

The upright on the dolly has a cup that cups the dolphin striker and mast post. In the top/center of the cup are two holes that a "U" shaped pin fits in. Once you get the boat on the dolly, you insert the pin in the cup which captures the dolphin striker and the mast post centered and keeps the boat from tilting back away from the dolly. We've also worked out the angles and spacing (in my case, the lower leg straight down from the dolphin striker support) so that once the boat is on the dolly, you can let go of everything and no part of the boat touches the ground. You can't tell in that picture because of the hull covers but the bows are about 4 inches off the grass.

The t-fitting on the center of the aluminum axle is fitted precisely to the windsurfer mast and they come apart with the removal of a pin for trailering.

Be cautious to work out all your weights and balance points with the boat completely rigged, the mast will change things dramatically.

Last edited by Jake; 11/03/08 08:23 PM.

Jake Kohl
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: Jake] #159253
11/03/08 10:27 PM
11/03/08 10:27 PM

A
andrewscott
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andrewscott
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A



they also sell a handle if you dont have the parts or time

http://www.murrays.com/archive/57.pdf



Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: ] #159286
11/04/08 06:39 AM
11/04/08 06:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Most of our Wave sailors have Cat Trax, with cradles, and with the handle. All that stuff can be bought in our Online Store, right here at catsailor.com.

Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: Jake] #159353
11/04/08 11:49 AM
11/04/08 11:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 235
JJ_ Offline
enthusiast
JJ_  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 235
Jake said:

Quote
And yes, the gelcoat is exceptionally thin on these boats compared to other typical cats (but why not?).


So how do you carefully get your Aaaaaa off the trailer onto that beach dolly?

Without scarring the hulls? Instead of yanking it off the trailer onto the dolly?

Not asking this facetiously. This question is from the "it's-better-to-use-a-lever-than-brute-strength" frame of thought.

Considering the Aaaaaaaaaaaa is a $20K boat, treating it with respect is always due, eh?

I am having an ongoing debate with myself about how to tip a boat off a trailer onto a dolly (or onto the ground and then onto the dolly)

I have already hijacked your pic of the high tech t-bar dolly!

MILLIONS, I AM GOING TO MARKET IT AND MAKE MILLIONS! Muahhahaha. By selling it at the catsailor store! (Thanks for the reminder, Mona Lise.)

Last edited by JJ_; 11/04/08 11:51 AM.
Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: JJ_] #159366
11/04/08 12:50 PM
11/04/08 12:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
It's really easy. My dolly sits under the boat on the trailer and I pull it out from the back and assemble the t-bar. The dolly sits on the ground and the handle hooks nicely onto my "flipped-down" mast support at the back of the trailer (after the mast is removed). I strap my hull chocks on the back of the boat. Standing at the bows, I push the boat back off the trailer and about the time it becomes unbalanced on the rear beams, the sterns are nicely over the cat trax. Then I go to the back of the boat, lift the sterns, and finish pulling it off the trailer.


Jake Kohl
Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: Jake] #159432
11/04/08 07:17 PM
11/04/08 07:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
I just spill out a big bucket of ball bearings and yank my boat of the trailer and drop it on the ball bearings and go wherever I want.It leaves speed dents in the hull but Jake said they're fast.
Jake as usual you've outdone yourself again. I'm impressed.
When you gonna start making N-20 masts?
Todd


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #159446
11/04/08 08:24 PM
11/04/08 08:24 PM

C
cattail
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cattail
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C



I haven't figured how strapping the blocks to the back helps it move yet I have been putting the wheels under the back and lifting the dolphin striker to clear the bunks then repositioning the wheels closer to center once Im off the trailer. I know there is a better way the blocks have a bungie over the hull and would give a little just concerned about sticking or digging in the back without wheels. Today I had 10 to 15 knots of wind my boat started doing a happy dance after I removed the wheels. What a difference from the first time smile

Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: ] #159453
11/04/08 08:53 PM
11/04/08 08:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
I don't really need the chocks on the sterns at that point - only when I move the hulls to where I need them do I need the chocks (when I slide the hulls back off the dolly to the ground for stability). The hulls go straight from the trailer cradle to the dolly cradles.

The absolute beauty of this system is that you back the boat to the water, with the cradles right at the edge of the water, lift the bows, push back, and launch. You leave the wheels right there pegged in the sand. When you return, you don't have to beach the boat. Jump off in the shallows, lift the bows onto the cradles, slide the boat forward, pin the dolphin striker, and wheel away.

However, I mostly sail on lakes so I don't have to deal with a tide.


Jake Kohl
Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: Jake] #159455
11/04/08 09:06 PM
11/04/08 09:06 PM

C
cattail
Unregistered
cattail
Unregistered
C



I've got about 50 feet to the water from the closest point the trailer can go. I tryed stepping the mast right off the trailer and today next to the water. With my skinny tires they really plow thru the sand with the extra weight of the mast over them. It worked out better stepping the mast closer to the entry. I get a little nervous taking the mast down once I detach the aft stays and its only hanging from the fore stays. Today I had a couple of ladies push the nose down for me while I walked the mast down to a waiting chair. I've seen the mast raising rig for sale but don't think I want to step the mast still on the trailer or use my main sheet blocks. Has anyone come up with a system or devise to make that easier?

Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: ] #159458
11/04/08 09:20 PM
11/04/08 09:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
With the split forestays and a 16 to 20 lb mast on an a-cat, you don't need anything special to raise or lower the mast yourself.

First - point the boat into the wind. and bring the beach wheels forward (under the forestay tangs).

Second - position the mast forward and pin the base to the front beam. Support the tip of the mast out of the sand somewhere (like on the trailer or a folding chair).

Third - install rigging (I completely remove mine when trailering). Connect the two forestays but leave them secured to the hull with more slack than normal - about four to five inches extra slack. I stretch and bunji the trap lines in place just to keep them sraight.

Fourth, step the mast and let the two forestays hold it in position. With the boat facing the wind, with the forestays slack, and with the bows slightly high, the mast will be leaning back a good bit. The split forestays will provide plenty of side to side support for the mast and you can easily leave it sitting there (as long as you are pointing into the wind).

Fifth, pin your sidestays.

Sixth - tighten up the forestays bringing the mast forward and tensioning the rig properly.



While I agree that it is a little unnerving leaving the mast raised and supported only by the forestays, it is pretty stable there. Also note that the mast base will allow the mast to pivot way lower than it needs to - there's no reason you need to tilt the bows down to step or lower the mast.


Jake Kohl
Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: Jake] #159462
11/04/08 09:57 PM
11/04/08 09:57 PM

C
cattail
Unregistered
cattail
Unregistered
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Thanks for all the help guys I'm enjoying the level of expertice here. So what does tensioned properly look like? Today with all the wind I had the forestays about as tight as I could get them and everything looked tight on the beach. Underway however one of the stays downwind showed some slack. Running downwind even the forestays went limp. Are you using a tension guage or guitar string test?

Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: Jake] #159522
11/05/08 11:21 AM
11/05/08 11:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 235
JJ_ Offline
enthusiast
JJ_  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 235
Jake said:

Quote
I strap my hull chocks on the back of the boat.


If you get a chance, can you post a pic of your hull chock choice? (Say that fast 10 times.)

Do you already have one in among your pics?

There seem to be a varying and interesting choice of versions out there. Example:

Here's a nice pair for a small fee!?

Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: JJ_] #159524
11/05/08 11:43 AM
11/05/08 11:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 235
JJ_ Offline
enthusiast
JJ_  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 235
PS:

The last line of a post on Seacats website:

Quote
Up next; spraying gel coat - the hows, the toos, and a whole lot of doníts.


Really good info on resurfacing hulls. Did the sequel get writ?

To be a box office hit, for sure.

Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: JJ_] #159539
11/05/08 12:39 PM
11/05/08 12:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
no - unfortunately, the sequel is still in my brain and has not made it to my keyboard yet.


Jake Kohl
Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: JJ_] #159540
11/05/08 12:44 PM
11/05/08 12:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by JJ_
Jake said:

Quote
I strap my hull chocks on the back of the boat.


If you get a chance, can you post a pic of your hull chock choice? (Say that fast 10 times.)

Do you already have one in among your pics?

There seem to be a varying and interesting choice of versions out there. Example:

Here's a nice pair for a small fee!?


Nothing fancy on the chocks. They're a piece of rubbery foam that are square on the bottom, about 4 inches tall, and have a semi-circle cut-out top to match the shape of the hull. A bunjie pierces the rubber on each side, exits at the bottom on each side, and is tied in a figure eight. Nothing really fancy. They strap on the sterns over the rudder arms to keep the sterns from touching the ground.


Jake Kohl
Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: Jake] #159578
11/05/08 04:03 PM
11/05/08 04:03 PM

S
Scarecrow
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Scarecrow
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My last set were made of 6x foot long pieces of pool noodle joined together (internal lacing) into a triangle. They were a temporary solution that worked so well that sculpted chocks kepted being bumped to the bottom of the to do list. The advantage of the triangle was you didn't have to fuss around getting them the right way up.

Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: Jake] #159977
11/09/08 05:30 PM
11/09/08 05:30 PM

C
cattail
Unregistered
cattail
Unregistered
C



Jake good advise on cats you were right about not needing anything special to step the mast. After doing it a few times the hardest part was getting the stays and trap lines straightened out. Last night I made a foam ring about the size of a life ring with a groove around it to wind those on, with a few pieces of Velcro thru it they are way easier to get ready. Small craft advisory today 25 to 40 playing with gel coat and epoxy.

Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: ] #160218
11/12/08 01:53 PM
11/12/08 01:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
Originally Posted by cattail
Hi Andrew,
I never considered anchoring in waves they break close to shore and are usually small. I know those wheels are expensive to replace a lock and cable would be wise. Thanks for the advise I have 4 boat stores on the way . Where on the boat would I tie and store an anchor ?Under the mast would be my choice the front stays don't split for a jib they run full length like the back stays and trap lines all come from the same spot.


I have a padded bag made for my anchors (each boat gets its own specially designed along with the paddle handle and blade) and it clips down to the tramp (cat rig) or goes into a tramp bag. Does not matter if I fall onto it and the bag keeps it tidy. Bridle is a very simple thing and goes with chain and warp in own bag for weight distribution.
I sail to beaches a lot and dealing with the tide is unacceptable as it results in damage to the dragged hulls.

Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: Jake] #160223
11/12/08 02:10 PM
11/12/08 02:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
W
warbird Offline
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warbird  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
I inherited a handle system the same as this years ago and they work well.
But these days I just put my righting rope behind the axle of the wheels as I push them in. This leaves a return which I tie off to mast base. The wheels are pushed far enough back to leave weight on them when I maneuver using the bow and when I put the boat back in the water I simply undo the righting rope from the mast base and pull it while placing one foot on the main beam for leverage to regain the wheels without getting wet.
I find beaches have small surges.
I pull the boat back into shore in an on shore breeze by lifting hulls from rear to stop sanding affect. I wait for a bit of a surge to help me in and on my return a similar surge to help me out.
I don't like to use the "find a friend" method as they are never there when it really counts..Murphy's Law and I like to be self-sufficient.

Re: beach entry and exit with mostly onshore wind [Re: Jake] #160293
11/12/08 09:45 PM
11/12/08 09:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 235
JJ_ Offline
enthusiast
JJ_  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 235
Jake said:

Quote
Nothing fancy on the chocks. They're a piece of rubbery foam that are square on the bottom, about 4 inches tall, and have a semi-circle cut-out top to match the shape of the hull. A bunjie pierces the rubber on each side, exits at the bottom on each side, and is tied in a figure eight. Nothing really fancy. They strap on the sterns over the rudder arms to keep the sterns from touching the ground.


Thanks for the detail.

Sounds like a no big deal thing to put together... but for me finding a square block of "rubbery foam" about 4" to 8" tall has not been easy.

Happened to see a pic (fuzzy pic) of a Viper on a beach with a set of tall, square yellow chocks that looked like soft foam of some sort, shaped to fit the hulls with cloth or canvas flaps on the side, top edges with eyelets for the rope tying them to the rear crossbeam.

It was a nice design.

Surprised that catsailor or Hobie or Murrays or whomever doesn't market chocks made of polyform -- like the fenders that you see hung over the side of docked boats.

The purpose of which is to avoid the "bottom job".

My motivation for chocks is simply to have a way to rig and yank the boat off the trailer and get into the water in 15 minutes flat or less without aggravation. Kinda like a NASCAR tire change. smirk






Last edited by JJ_; 11/12/08 09:47 PM.
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