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Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #119658
01/10/08 03:11 PM
01/10/08 03:11 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Mark P Offline
old hand
Mark P  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Hi Rolf
You appear to know exactly what you are doing and are working to a good plan which is the key. I have no experience in boat building so I'm not of much help but your blog is extremely good. To answer your first question I'm not planing on building a F16 but something a bit smaller to start off with. If I'm happy with the results then who knows!!!


MP*MULTIHULLS
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Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Mark P] #119659
01/19/08 01:01 AM
01/19/08 01:01 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
First hull half is now mostly planked. Putting the planks in place is satisfying work, if demanding at times. I suppose it will become routine when we get to the last hull.. Updates are in the blog.

[Linked Image]

BTW: For those who dont know, I am the stern guy with a green shirt and a caps on. Frode is the tall guy with the woolie.

Attached Files
130875-garage.jpg (346 downloads)
Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #119660
02/21/08 10:13 AM
02/21/08 10:13 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
For those interested, we just pulled the first strip plank hull half off the mould and did a quick weight calculation.
I stepped on to our bathroom scales and got my base weight. I then picked up the hull half and we found the difference. Came out at 7.7Kgs. There are obviously several problems with this method to find the weight, but that is what we have got for now. Hull half is glassed on just one side with regular weave 200gsm glass but will now be sanded and glassed on the inside with 163gsm twill weave. We have learnt a lot from the process, so we fully expect the next half to be finished a lot faster with a better result.

So, if we say the finished hull half will weight in at 8.5Kgs that puts on a target weight of 26.5Kgs for the complete hull according to Marcus. Target should be 24Kgs to be close to min. weight, and I think we can achieve that. Phill and others have come up with some tips to further reduce weight which I dont think have been tried in other boats yet.
Even with just one side glassed, the part was very stiff. It will be extremely interesting to see how this project turnes out or if we will have a huge pile of firewood once we sheet in <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #119661
02/21/08 04:04 PM
02/21/08 04:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Don't we all just love the amount of different topics and info available here on this forum ?

I find Rolf's and Frode's efforts to be extremely interesting.

26.5 kg as a conservative estimate for the first hulls ? I find that pretty promising.

Thanks for the update !


Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 02/21/08 04:05 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Wouter] #119662
02/21/08 04:54 PM
02/21/08 04:54 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Wouter,

that is a very rought "guesstimate". Once we get closer to a finished boat, we will be more certain. But the building method is not way off at least.

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #119663
02/22/08 05:00 AM
02/22/08 05:00 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 120
Finland
valtteri Offline
member
valtteri  Offline
member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 120
Finland
Rolf, if I remember correctly you were planning clear coat for the hulls. This way you would be saving maybe around 1.5 kg's of paint too, have you calculated that to your estimate?


Valtteri Blade F16
Re: Blade building project.. [Re: valtteri] #160492
11/15/08 04:49 PM
11/15/08 04:49 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
I have been a naughty boy and forgotten to update you all on our project. I'll try to do better in the future.

We have not worked on the project during summer. Too many other projects and keeping the wife happy is important too. Now we are back at it. The building blog is still at: http://woodastic.blogspot.com/

I have two tips to share which was posted here recently during a debate about why homebuilding is important to a growing class. We have to be careful with the costs we incur on our boats, so we are always looking around for deals. Being able to use your own work as a way to get an affordable boat is a good way to help grow the class.

Tip 1: To get epoxy resin at a good price, dont buy in a store but do a phone session to industrial providers. If you have your own company you can easily score epoxy to 1/5th the price in a shop. We dont have a company, but were able to find an industrial provider who would sell us what we wanted anyway. The same providers often supply fillers, thickeners and fairing compound as well. Just make sure you know what you get so the epoxy is suitable for your project and your workshop. We found supplemental products to have a markup close to 20 times the cost price in shops!

Tip 2: If you need carbon fibers at a reasonable price, get to the phone and start calling carbon fiber weavers or manufacturers. We managed to buy 40kgs of carbon, at a very reasonable price compared to store prices. In fact the carbon and epoxy is so affordable that alu beams are much more expensive for us.


Some have called us nuts, so we had to find a way to block out the negative waves. The solution was obvious:

Attached Files
tinhat-brigade.JPG (534 downloads)
Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #160493
11/15/08 05:37 PM
11/15/08 05:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Rolf,

That picture is proper funny.

Keep up the good work


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Blade building project.. [Re: scooby_simon] #160503
11/16/08 03:55 AM
11/16/08 03:55 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
We have a good time in the workshop, when it is possible to talk over the noise from powertools that is.

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #160565
11/17/08 05:30 AM
11/17/08 05:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 285
C
Catfan Offline
enthusiast
Catfan  Offline
enthusiast
C

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 285
Rolf,

I am curious to know what you mean with "reasonable price" since I also found a good source for 1st choice 370 grs/sqm HS carbon cloth.
For small quantities (1-5 Kgs) the quotation is EUR 20 per sqm or EUR 54 per Kg.
Besides for very special INTERMEDIATE modulus they ask EUR 35 per sqm.
I bought some of both

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Catfan] #160566
11/17/08 05:43 AM
11/17/08 05:43 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
We did a little better than you wink Sent you an PM.

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #160569
11/17/08 06:32 AM
11/17/08 06:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Just in from Interpol:
Large quantity of carbon stolen from warehouse.
Suspects wore tinfoil hats and where last seen driving in an easterly direction. wink

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Tony_F18] #161145
11/22/08 10:48 AM
11/22/08 10:48 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
What do you get when you let the boys off to play with the chemistry set without supervision? You get a mess to clean up laugh laugh

Frode and Omar was to glue the rest of the bulkheads at frodes place last week. Turned out they had a small mix up when measuring the epoxy. It is suppsed to be 100 parts resin to 32 parts hardener. Suffice to say that 50 parts hardener to 16 grams resin dont promote a good result. Frode have to clean the parts, do some sanding and try again.

What did we learn? Mark the tins for resin and hardener with a big marker! I feel partly responsible as I did not mark or leave instructions on what was in the unmarked containers, but as the tins was very different, I knew what was in them.

Last edited by Rolf_Nilsen; 11/22/08 10:49 AM.
Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #161148
11/22/08 12:33 PM
11/22/08 12:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 443
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
bobcat Offline
addict
bobcat  Offline
addict

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 443
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
And even in your story you are potentially adding confusion when you refer to 50 parts and 16 grams....mixing units could lead to a bad mix.

But I got your point.



F16 Blade 716
Re: Blade building project.. [Re: bobcat] #161149
11/22/08 12:42 PM
11/22/08 12:42 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
I live in Norway and here we use the metric system. The scope of all epoxy measurement is grams for us. The important part is that the ratios are correct.

Last edited by Rolf_Nilsen; 11/22/08 12:47 PM.
Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #161152
11/22/08 02:24 PM
11/22/08 02:24 PM

O
Omar
Unregistered
Omar
Unregistered
O



Rolf, you have to rub it in, do you... We promise to learn from this- and do better next time. Promise

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: ] #161153
11/22/08 03:03 PM
11/22/08 03:03 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Uh-oh, now that you are active here on CS the nag about me refusing to get on facebook will never cease..

Good to see you here Omar, you can keep me to the straight facts smile

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #161154
11/22/08 03:17 PM
11/22/08 03:17 PM

O
Omar
Unregistered
Omar
Unregistered
O



Nice to be here as well:) I need to work on my postings so I could get a better and cooler rating than just "stranger".

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: ] #161195
11/23/08 08:39 AM
11/23/08 08:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Rolf, I was laughing pretty hard on the 50 parts harner, 16 resin, because I've done something like that many years ago when I was working on a wooden deck for a 505. It did get hard, too fast though!

And last week my 12 yr. old daughter was telling me she didn't need my help to make a cake, and then she added 1 1/2 cups oil (recipe said 1/2 cup) ummm, not so yummy cake...

Anyway, the DVD arrived yesterday and I put it in my laptop and watched it all.

Thanks for that!

Omar, welcome aboard, was that you in the foil hat or Frode?

Last edited by Timbo; 11/23/08 08:39 AM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Timbo] #161216
11/23/08 01:14 PM
11/23/08 01:14 PM

O
Omar
Unregistered
Omar
Unregistered
O



Thanks Timbo for kind words and support during difficult time of messing up! I must admit it was me wearing that foil hat, next to Rolf. Good to be amongst friends here by the way;)

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