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dagger boards confusion #161722
12/02/08 01:45 PM
12/02/08 01:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline OP
enthusiast
Baltic  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Being a proud owner of a Capricorn since two weeks, I read more closely the owners manual. The advice on the dagger boards actually do confuse me. Going downwinds with spi I always thought they should be fully raised in all wind conditions. The manual, however, says that both should be fully down at low winds, 20-30cm up in medium winds, and 50cm in strong winds. Another Cap-sailor told me that he has the leeward daggerboard always fully down, and the windward one according to the aformentioned rules. I think there should be general principles?!


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: dagger boards confusion [Re: Baltic] #161725
12/02/08 02:33 PM
12/02/08 02:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Congrats on the new boat - everyone loves getting something new!

I've generally gone by the book on daggers and not spent too much brain sweat on it. I noticed the US champions on a Tiger leaving their boards down all the time maybe six years ago...

There have been several threads on the issue with gybing and fixed board boats - do a quick search. My conclusion was and continues to be that the guy who wrote the manual on my boat has more time on the water and on the boat than me. If I can prove him wrong, I might try something different. I am secure in the knowledge that I am not an innovator - further, I am not averse to trying something new. It works for me. wink


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: dagger boards confusion [Re: John Williams] #161746
12/02/08 06:12 PM
12/02/08 06:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
Light winds the boards help to lift the windward hull. Thus all the way down.
Moderate winds. Hul has lift already boat wants to Trip sideways over the board so a little bit raised.
Heavy winds Boat needs to spill power by sliding so more raising the boards.
Thats how it was explained to me.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: dagger boards confusion [Re: F-18 5150] #161747
12/02/08 06:15 PM
12/02/08 06:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline
old hand
ncik  Offline
old hand

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
Also remember that less board means less surface area which means less drag = faster...generally.

Re: dagger boards confusion [Re: ncik] #161749
12/02/08 06:23 PM
12/02/08 06:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 43
Falmouth, MA, USA
RTodd Offline
newbie
RTodd  Offline
newbie

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 43
Falmouth, MA, USA
Going downwind last weekend in light air, I stumbled across another reason to keep the boards fully down in light air (at least on a 2005 Nacra F18).

With the boards raised ~30 cm or so, I had to keep the rudders 20-30 degrees to windward to go straight. Put the boards down, and it's back to neutral helm. With more wind (and more speed through the water), less daggerboard area is needed to balance out the sail plan.

Last edited by RTodd; 12/02/08 07:33 PM.

Robert Todd
Capricorn F18 #151
Falmouth, MA
Re: dagger boards confusion [Re: RTodd] #161906
12/04/08 03:01 AM
12/04/08 03:01 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline OP
enthusiast
Baltic  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
You are talking about both dagger boards, right? You don't make a difference between the lee- and the windward board?


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
Re: dagger boards confusion [Re: Baltic] #161911
12/04/08 05:49 AM
12/04/08 05:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 52
G
GBR6 Offline
journeyman
GBR6  Offline
journeyman
G

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 52
Hi Baltic
when I got my new Landy main earlier this year he sent me some crib notes that touched on the dagerboard settings and are as follows; - " The capricorn itself is a little unusual to sail downwind. the Centerboards are very sensitive. Unless it is blowing 20 knots, never lift the board more than the V cut out in the board. 10 - 12 cm is enough. Any more and you are slow. The boat is so boyant that it need most of the board to lift and go forward."
Cheers.

Re: dagger boards confusion [Re: GBR6] #162222
12/08/08 12:52 PM
12/08/08 12:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline OP
enthusiast
Baltic  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
GBR6 - that is very interesting indeed. My boat has Landerberger sails, too, and after phoning them they promised to send a tuning guide according to my generation of sails (2007).
John, to which "book of daggers' do you refer? Do you own a Capricorn as well and mean the AHPC tuning guide?



F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
Re: dagger boards confusion [Re: Baltic] #162304
12/09/08 08:32 AM
12/09/08 08:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Yep - I have a Cap, too. Between he owners' manual and the tuning guide, I think they covered all the basics quite thoroughly.



John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: dagger boards confusion [Re: John Williams] #162322
12/09/08 11:15 AM
12/09/08 11:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline OP
enthusiast
Baltic  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
At least the owner's manual is not the last word in dependability (<- correct word?). Greg admitted already two mistakes in the downwind section: the main downhaul should be off on all wind conditions and the adjustments for the main traveller is listed twice with conflicting recommendations. What else might be wrong? I have to confess that this alienates me as a beginner a lot.

Attached Files
Bild 1 18-11-05.jpg (377 downloads)

F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
Re: dagger boards confusion [Re: Baltic] #162358
12/10/08 01:50 AM
12/10/08 01:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline OP
enthusiast
Baltic  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
... to avoid a wrong impression: Greg knows of these mistakes and promised to update his tuning guide soon.


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
Re: dagger boards confusion [Re: Baltic] #162544
12/13/08 05:27 AM
12/13/08 05:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 36
World Citizen
JFR Offline
newbie
JFR  Offline
newbie

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 36
World Citizen
Baltic,
Your attachment shows latest AHPC guide? Did you get Landy's guide as well?



JFR
Infusion Mk2
Re: dagger boards confusion [Re: JFR] #162607
12/14/08 09:30 AM
12/14/08 09:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline OP
enthusiast
Baltic  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
JFR, not in table form like AHPC's - do you have one? I'm planning to make one on my own in EXCEL, based on the information and corrections from AHPC and Landenberger, and send it to check to Landenberger . I am in conversation with Felix Egner there who makes a very cooperative impression.


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli

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