| Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: Seeker]
#162024 12/05/08 11:37 AM 12/05/08 11:37 AM |
Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 915 Dublin, Ireland Dermot
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Posts: 915 Dublin, Ireland | To all those living outside the US that feel compelled to comment on our gun policies in the US read this: http://www.wftv.com/mostpopular/18201932/detail.htmlClick on this link (or cut and paste) to read about the brutal beating and rape of a 70 year old woman in Orlando this week... This is a perfect example of a home invasion...When I read/hear about these thing on a regular bases it really pisses me off that some of my own country men try to keep us from being able to defend ourselves with handguns...when someone from thousands of miles a way...who doesn't have a clue of what they are talking about starts preaching their message of ignorance about gun control it just...well...I think I will stop right there... Are you really saying that the 70 year old woman would have been safe if she had a handgun ? If an incident like that was happening every day to thousands of American citizens, it would not make the news - most people are safe in their homes - but you think that an incident like this justifies arming every American with a hand gun. Having so many hand guns readily available to people causes more deaths than it could ever save. Pete asked Rolf why he was getting so worked up about the American policy on guns. I can't speak for Rolf, but most people outside the USA find it difficult to understand, in this modern age, why Americans defent their "right to bear arms" when all it does is cause so many deaths - see the statistics. In Europe we have "house invasions", rapes and murders, but we do not think that it justifies arming the civilian population. We know that there would be more innocent people killed than rapists and murderers.
Dermot Catapult 265
| | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: Dermot]
#162025 12/05/08 11:51 AM 12/05/08 11:51 AM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | It may not be as much an argument about "the right to bear arms" as it is an argument about the government taking away any "right" that was previously granted.
The gov't took away our "right" to consume alcohol (I think today is the anniversary of the lifting of prohibition, btw) a long time ago, and that didn't go over so well...
I personally like the freedoms I may exercise in USA. It is dissapointing when I see these freedoms taken away abrubptly or slowly... Especially when I don't see a particular benefit resulting from the loss of whatever right is taken away.
In a vague comparison, consider my right to privacy vs. government surveillance. I see their need to know what's going on to protect me, but don't really like the idea of them listening in on me (not that I have anything intelligent to say, anyway - that's going to be one bored dude that has to listen in on my stuff).
How do you like all those cameras in public places (I'm thinking of Britan specifically)? You've probably gotten used to them, but that subject is a huge controversy in US.
Even something like red-light cameras to catch law-breakers faces stiff resistance from the population. Not sure why they do...
So, if red-light cameras reduce fatalities, why isn't it a law to have them at every intersection? Surely this will save lives, no?
Jay
| | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#162029 12/05/08 12:48 PM 12/05/08 12:48 PM |
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,074 Northfield,NH USA bullswan OP
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Posts: 2,074 Northfield,NH USA | It may not be as much an argument about "the right to bear arms" as it is an argument about the government taking away any "right" that was previously granted.
The gov't took away our "right" to consume alcohol (I think today is the anniversary of the lifting of prohibition, btw) a long time ago, and that didn't go over so well...
I personally like the freedoms I may exercise in USA. It is dissapointing when I see these freedoms taken away abrubptly or slowly... Especially when I don't see a particular benefit resulting from the loss of whatever right is taken away.
In a vague comparison, consider my right to privacy vs. government surveillance. I see their need to know what's going on to protect me, but don't really like the idea of them listening in on me (not that I have anything intelligent to say, anyway - that's going to be one bored dude that has to listen in on my stuff).
How do you like all those cameras in public places (I'm thinking of Britan specifically)? You've probably gotten used to them, but that subject is a huge controversy in US.
Even something like red-light cameras to catch law-breakers faces stiff resistance from the population. Not sure why they do...
So, if red-light cameras reduce fatalities, why isn't it a law to have them at every intersection? Surely this will save lives, no? VERY good. Dermot, do you also have a problem understanding why so many were upset about the government listening in on phone conversations (as reported this was ONLY conversations originating in Muslim countries to someone in the US? You can make the same argument as you did with the guns, namely that you will save more lives IF the government happens to hear conversations about terrorist activities. How would that type of government activity be treated in Ireland? It is TOTALLY about the loss or erosion of freedoms.
The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised. - George Will "It's not that liberals aren't smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so" -Ronald Reagan | | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#162030 12/05/08 12:54 PM 12/05/08 12:54 PM |
Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 915 Dublin, Ireland Dermot
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Posts: 915 Dublin, Ireland | In the UK and Ireland the police "on the beat" are not armed. Because of the times we live in, we have to have special back up armed units that can arrive at an incident if necessary. The police themselves have always voted not to be armed, because they believe that there would be an escalation of incidences where guns were used. I believe that CCTV is accepted and actually very popular over here. If there has been an incident like a robery, damage to a parked car, a fight, anything you can think of - the first reaction is "Did you check for CCTV" People will check with local banks, shops, filling stations etc. We have a "Crime Watch" program every few weeks where they show CCTV footage of roberies and many criminals are recognised and reported to the police. If you are law abiding you have nothing to fear. Someone mentioned Hollywood a few days ago. I think that many Americans really believe that what they see in the movies is happening all over the Country, and this has them very jumpy. You have a population of over 300m. Naturally some nasty things will happen - but most people will never come into contact with any of these crazies.
Dermot Catapult 265
| | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#162031 12/05/08 01:01 PM 12/05/08 01:01 PM |
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 291 JACKFLASH
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Even something like red-light cameras to catch law-breakers faces stiff resistance from the population. Not sure why they do...
So, if red-light cameras reduce fatalities, why isn't it a law to have them at every intersection? Surely this will save lives, no?
Red light cameras are about making money for the city. The "fine" you pay does not even go on your record. It is all about cash. Ironically, in the great city of Houston, where I live and where they just installed some of those camera's, they have had an INCREASE in traffic accidents at those intersections since the installation of the cameras. My guess is that people who should have gone are now breaking hard to to try to stop only to be hit from behind. Althoug the same data did indicate a reduction in traffic related fatalities at the same intersections. All that data came from the City of Houston. And the reason for my initial comment, the City of Houston made 265k the first week the cameras were turned on.
Collin Casey Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
| | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: JACKFLASH]
#162032 12/05/08 01:28 PM 12/05/08 01:28 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina |
Even something like red-light cameras to catch law-breakers faces stiff resistance from the population. Not sure why they do...
So, if red-light cameras reduce fatalities, why isn't it a law to have them at every intersection? Surely this will save lives, no?
Red light cameras are about making money for the city. The "fine" you pay does not even go on your record. It is all about cash. Ironically, in the great city of Houston, where I live and where they just installed some of those camera's, they have had an INCREASE in traffic accidents at those intersections since the installation of the cameras. My guess is that people who should have gone are now breaking hard to to try to stop only to be hit from behind. Althoug the same data did indicate a reduction in traffic related fatalities at the same intersections. All that data came from the City of Houston. And the reason for my initial comment, the City of Houston made 265k the first week the cameras were turned on. When they started installing those in our town, it was discovered that the company that builds the cameras was providing them for free....in exchange for a percentage of the money tickets generated.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: Jake]
#162035 12/05/08 02:16 PM 12/05/08 02:16 PM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | While I personally don't mind cameras in public spaces for the very reasons Dermot indicated (No problem if you're not doing anything wrong), I'm sure there are plenty of people here and abroad that aren't so happy about someone "poking around in my business", even if what they are doing isn't wrong...
Interesting question regarding the cameras. Have they significantly REDUCED crime, or have they merely increased the capture/conviction rate?
And for the red-light camera discussion, if the monetary gain were out of the equation, would you vote to install them at intersections?
Even if fender-benders go up as a result, the reduction in fatalities is worth it, right?
And auto body shops must be laughing all the way to the bank, too....
Jay
| | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: hobie1616]
#162039 12/05/08 03:38 PM 12/05/08 03:38 PM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | so the point is, we're all bad drivers?
If this technology was more effective (and it will be with RFIDs on cars), would it not discourage people from driving carelessly/wrecklessly? Would this not reduce crashes and injuries?
Back to the public surveillance cameras... Would it bother you if the government used that data to keep an eye on your movements (even if they are legitimate and legal)?
Does it bother you if the government knew how many scoops of sugar you take in your coffee?
Even worse, if the gov't was contracting this surveillance out to a company, would it bother you that THEY know what you're up to? Like if they sold your data to a sugar-substitute marketing company?
Jay
| | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#162040 12/05/08 03:59 PM 12/05/08 03:59 PM |
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,074 Northfield,NH USA bullswan OP
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Posts: 2,074 Northfield,NH USA | Are you "concerned" by the ability of the FASTPASS toll-transponders tracking your whereabouts? In Maine, they time your passage through one toll booth and compare it to the time through another toll booth to determine your speed. Then they mail you a ticket.
How about the new procedure of checking your cellphone records at the time of a crash to see if you were "distracted"? (I wonder how they know you were talking on it and not a passenger?)
The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised. - George Will "It's not that liberals aren't smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so" -Ronald Reagan | | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: bullswan]
#162042 12/05/08 04:26 PM 12/05/08 04:26 PM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | How about the new procedure of checking your cellphone records at the time of a crash to see if you were "distracted"? (I wonder how they know you were talking on it and not a passenger?)
because they can listen to the conversation.... Do you think the internet is truly "free"? I'll bet lotsa people are watching us. I know China can do it with their population. Why can't people do it in the 'free' world? Because we're nicer? Now, before everyone cubbyholes me as a conspiracy theorist, I'm merely pointing out that technology exists to perform these functions. Whether entities (good or bad) use them (or are using them) is not my point.
Last edited by waterbug_wpb; 12/05/08 04:30 PM.
Jay
| | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#162044 12/05/08 04:56 PM 12/05/08 04:56 PM |
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 291 JACKFLASH
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Posts: 291 | So....you want conspiracy theory. In the US bills a have a metalic strip in them. Stores have sensors at the exits that "monitor theft", but I hear that they also count your money in your wallet. Why you ask, because the banks are trying to get everybody off of cash and on to plastic because they make money every time your card is swiped. I don't personally believe that BS but I had a boss that did. As a result he would pull the strip out of every bill he ever got. What a nut job.
Collin Casey Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
| | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: bullswan]
#162048 12/05/08 05:28 PM 12/05/08 05:28 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
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Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | Are you "concerned" by the ability of the FASTPASS toll-transponders tracking your whereabouts? In Maine, they time your passage through one toll booth and compare it to the time through another toll booth to determine your speed. Then they mail you a ticket. Wrong again. First of all, Maine uses EZ PASS, not FAST PASS. Secondly, NO STATE issues speeding tickets based on entry / exit time on a toll road. Here's the reference: SnopesA traffic officer needs to be involved in catching speeders to verify who is driving the vehicle. Otherwise, an owner of a vehicle who happens to have several other family members who drive the vehicle could get a speeding ticket for what another driver did, or even worse you could get ticketed for what your friend does while driving your vehicle. Besides, they could have been doing this years ago - way before EZ PASS. When you get on the Turnpike, the toll card has the time printed on it, and it's probably encoded in the magstripe on the back. They could station cops at every exit point to write you a ticket when you get off and the toll card is read. But they don't. Because they can't. Tinfoil hat alert. | | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: mbounds]
#162049 12/05/08 05:35 PM 12/05/08 05:35 PM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | Are you "concerned" by the ability of the FASTPASS toll-transponders tracking your whereabouts? In Maine, they time your passage through one toll booth and compare it to the time through another toll booth to determine your speed. Then they mail you a ticket. Wrong again. First of all, Maine uses EZ PASS, not FAST PASS. Secondly, NO STATE issues speeding tickets based on entry / exit time on a toll road. Here's the reference: SnopesA traffic officer needs to be involved in catching speeders to verify who is driving the vehicle. Otherwise, an owner of a vehicle who happens to have several other family members who drive the vehicle could get a speeding ticket for what another driver did, or even worse you could get ticketed for what your friend does while driving your vehicle. Besides, they could have been doing this years ago - way before EZ PASS. When you get on the Turnpike, the toll card has the time printed on it, and it's probably encoded in the magstripe on the back. They could station cops at every exit point to write you a ticket when you get off and the toll card is read. But they don't. Because they can't. Tinfoil hat alert. Wrong, They do the turnpike thing. I know 2 folks who got tickets on the Jersey tpk. that way. They weren't mailed, there was a cop there. Is that the new Hobie anti-electrocution helmet? I heard it's made from old comp tips.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: mbounds]
#162051 12/05/08 05:40 PM 12/05/08 05:40 PM |
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,074 Northfield,NH USA bullswan OP
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Posts: 2,074 Northfield,NH USA | Oh my goodness, EZ pass and Fast pass are the same damn thing, aren't they? Our NH transponder (I'm not sure which one it is) is what got the ticket. My wife has a ticket she got for driving in Maine and she got it in the mail. There ARE troopers at every toll but not in every booth obviously but I have no idea if maybe the pictures they take of your car makes the difference? NO IDEA how it works.
A few years ago (late 80's maybe) I got a speeding ticket by aircraft and it was mailed to me. Come to think of it, I don't know how they knew I was driving the car then either.....
The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised. - George Will "It's not that liberals aren't smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so" -Ronald Reagan | | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#162055 12/05/08 07:11 PM 12/05/08 07:11 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
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Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | They weren't mailed, there was a cop there. That's different. Are you sure they weren't caught speeding through the EZ PASS? That's infinitely more likely to happen. Our NH transponder (I'm not sure which one it is) is what got the ticket. My wife has a ticket she got for driving in Maine and she got it in the mail. Same thing. Show me a copy of the ticket and I'll believe you. Otherwise, it's just anecdotal BS. Oh, and Colin? There's a polyester stripe in currency, not magnetic. There's magnetic ink on the bills (just like there is on checks), but you can't read it from a distance, anymore than you could read cassette tape from a distance. My whole point is - you guys spout off urban legends and conspiracy theories as if they were facts - which does nothing to improve your credibility when attempting to conduct an intelligent conversation. | | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: mbounds]
#162057 12/05/08 07:55 PM 12/05/08 07:55 PM |
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 291 JACKFLASH
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Oh, and Colin? There's a polyester stripe in currency, not magnetic. There's magnetic ink on the bills (just like there is on checks), but you can't read it from a distance, anymore than you could read cassette tape from a distance.
As I said that theory was from a former boss. I believe I even called it "BS" in my original post. I personally don't subscribe to very many conspiracy theories.
Collin Casey Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
| | | Re: great 2nd amendment video
[Re: JACKFLASH]
#162058 12/05/08 08:26 PM 12/05/08 08:26 PM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger
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Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn | I'm waiting for some jack hole to pass a law saying the Gov't can monitor OnStar and just mail you a ticket. I need to go watch 1984 to sooth my nerves. Matt- Next time I see you, I'm bringing my tinfoil helmet, want me to bring my spare? Holy CRAP! Anyone else see that oil closed at $40.81 a barrel today?
Last edited by Karl_Brogger; 12/05/08 08:42 PM.
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