There's a discussion on the main page. Anybody here tried it?

Pete,
Centre sheeting tends to be easier on your back because the load is not a twisting type of load.
You need a heavier boom (2 inch) to take the load coming up from the first sheave the sheet goes through.
The people that I know that do not like centre sheeting mostly have said they don't like the movement that they get from the tramp. Some have commented that they felt more like they were sheeting in their tramp rather than the main when trying to make small adjustements in sheet tension. Not sure if this is real of just imagined. I guess this would depend on your setup. If you installed a centre beam between the main and rear beam like they do on the mossie that problem should be solved. Personally I can't stand the centre beams- forever knocking my shins on them when I had a mossie.

I've not used it on an F16 I can see it would really upset the way I jibe when under spinnaker. But have it on a Paper Tiger and like it there.

Regards,
Phill

Hi Tikipete,

I actually missed the point what it is good for. On the main forum, somebody said, Ashby is using it, so it must be good. But that is not really an argument.
Especially on smaller cats I like it, if the tramp is as clean as possible. Your crew will be grateful for that.
I sailed a couple of dinghies, which have all this centre sheeting. If I compare it with the classic cat sheet layout, I don't see a benefit. It is not bad, just different.

Cheers,

Klaus

I've thought about it but I think it is most popular with the A cats, where the mainsheet is the only sheet. On an F16, with all the spinnaker sheet, halyard, jib sheet, what ever, to tangle up with, or get hung up on that block in the middle of the tramp, I don't see the advantage.

John Williams has a thread going on the main forum where he explains how he liked it, when he was crewing on his Capricorn. I could maybe see doing this on an F18 if your crew is always going to sheet for you. But on an F16, where you are solo or two up, and if you are not going to have your crew sheeting for you, I think that center tramp block would just be in the way and cause more trouble, more than it would improve your results.

If I had an A cat I would certainly try it.

I wonder why people don't fit a ratchet to the middle of the tramp and just lead the mainsheet from the normal blocks and cleat first to this ratchet and then to the crew or skipper. Meaning, not first along the boom and then down to the trampoline. Much less springiness of the trampoline in this new plane, easily made and out of the way when tacking c.q. jibing as the sheet layes close to the trampoline or even flat on it when you grab it between the blocks/cleat and this tramp fitted ratchet. You also double up on the ratchets on your mainsheet and increase holding power that way, especially attractive when using an autoratchet.

Additionally the upward pull on the traveler car is much less then when sheeting directly from the cleat. It should be enough to just stitch a small loop to the trampoline and tie an autorathet to that. Should work on a spi boat as well.

This has all they advantages of a centre sheeting system with hardly any of the drawbacks. The only drawback I can see is when you keep the mainsheet out of the cleat but pulled tight when tacking (note how this this never happens when gybing on a spi boat). You'll have to move your legs over the slightly raised mainsheet line between the ratchet and mainsheet blocks. This could even be an advantage as you can hold the sheet by pressing your knee onto it keeping your hands free to thumble the tiller across.

Somebody should try this one time !

Wouter

I tried it at various points along the boom and always ran into the same problem as a single hander, as soon as you go right foward when going up wind, the line of the sheet to the mid point conflicts with the side stay, ie the sheet touches the side stay when out on the wire, couldn't really get it to work well but the pulling direction is really ideal

I've looked at it and mates had them on old trim Tornado's. I think it can work sailing 2 up; but as soon as you are sailing single handed and gybing a kite you need to work out how to get the tiller behind the multi at the back beam and the spi sheet past the mainsheet at the boom.

Wouter I see a couple of issues with your idea (if I've interpreted it correctly, that being that the mainsheet runs along the tramp to the back beam).

1. As you ease the traveller, you system will require you to ease the mainsheet (more so than the "normal system).

2. the block/ratched fitted to the tramp will be in a basically horizontal orientation when in operation. You might find you send a lot of time controlling the "flop over" of this block or that the main regularaly requires fliping or untangling after a tack/or gybe.

Pete,

Take a look at Patrick's or Ben's A when you are at the club. They both have center sheeting but it is mounted on the boom and does not go to the tramp. On a 2 person boat I personaly would not think about sailing with a tramp mounted mid sheet system. I get tangled in everything already and this was just a real PITA when I tried to sail. The boom mounted system still has the sheet and cleat which can get caught up on things going over to the opposite side but was much more user friendly.

Having sailed with both, what would be really cool would be for someone to develope a system that changed from rear to mid during the race. Rear sheeting is definitely more awkward especialy under certain points of sail.

For me though, I have too many years under my belt to get used to something different.

Better method of central sheeting i have seen was on some of the Euro A-Cats. Normal blocks on the traveller, but the sheet would run the entire length of the boom to the mast, before coming back to the centre under the tramp and exit that way.

Premiss was that when pulling on the sheet you were only adjusting the sheet and not pulling the traveller up the track. And by having it running from the front beam to the centre under the tramp, wouldn't catch it if you were tacking/gybing.

I fundamentally disagree with your first point. Actually, while travelling in and out you'll to give (or take) need LESS sheet. The sheet as a whole must be slightly longer to make the turn around the tramp ratchet but when moving the traveller car requires less additional sheet then without the tramprathet because the piece of sheet line between the tramp ratchet and the mainsheet block can largely arc from side to side and thus take up most of the traveled distance; this is of course for the same length.

If the tramp ratchet is say 1 mtr in front of the centre of the rearbeam then traveling the mainsheet 1 mtr down the rail (pretty much max on spi boats !) then the distance between the tramp ratchet and the mainsheet blocks goes from 1 mtr to 1.4 mtr.; a difference of only 0.4 mtr in addition to the 2 mtr give of the traveler line itself. This while traveling out with the current conventional system would require 1 mtr + 2 mtr = 3 mtr. So this tramp ratchet system needs 0.60 mtr or 20% less sheet when traveling out. This benefit increases when you place the tramp ratchet more forward on the trampoline.

I'm also not sure whether point 2 is much of concern after all the line wrap around the blocks with be close to 90 degrees and the ratchet block experience a load situation that strongly favours aligning itself properly.

But indeed some-one needs to try it to be sure. For now it is just a wild idea I had.

Wouter

Wouter, have a look at the set up I am referring too. It takes out the bad points in your system that Scarecrow refers too when lowering traveller but not sheet.

If it is good enough for the top A-Cat guys who are also involved AC stuff, then it must work as they spend a lot of time on systems and making sure they work. And being top 5 to 10 at the worlds too.

James,

The fact that I didn't reply to your post doesn't mean that I didn't understand what you were referring too.

Wouter

Then you're fundamentally wrong...we're comparing your mid boom system with the other proposed systems.

Comparing a "standard" mid boom sheeting system (tramp-boom-block) to your system (Tramp-block-boom)

with the 1m traveller ease you suggested and a 480mm gap between boom and tramp.

your system would require the main sheet to be eased 410mm
the "standard" system would require a 210mm ease
and the sheet forward system would require no ease.

Obviously the cleat on the traveller system requires the largest ease but this is typically achieved by cleating the sheet and letting it run with the block which is quite different in my opinion.

Interesting, as I wasn't describing any mid boom system at all.

But I also fail to see any significance of this fussing over details. Since when is feeding out the mainsheet line when repositioning the traveler car a problem ?

Wouter