I've been looking at the F16 and Mozzie for a while and been considering building one. I lent my older timber A to a mate who had the courtesy to do a fantastic pitchpole in front of me while on a full on beam reach, unfortunately as the cat pulled back and over he slammed into the side wiping out the hull forward of the beam. It has a light ali mast, ali beams, MK3 centreboards, MK3 kick up rudders, quite new traveller track and tramp. So my query is can these parts be used to kickstart an F16 project or is it better to start afresh? The sail is in good order what difference in size and shape between A and F16 main?
regards Jeff

Hi Jeff,

are you looking at using the hulls or just the hardware, beams, mast etc.

Hardware is totaly useable, but not optimal. Beams are less than max width, but that is only a draw back in strongest of winds.

Mast would need to be reduced in length easiest is to chop the top off and leave the hounds etc. where they are.

Mainsail is too long on the luff, so would need cutting down, but if you cut the top off, making bigger square top, you would be left with a sail still smaller than max but probably ok. Generaly F16 sails would be cut fuller than a A to cope with the extra weight, but it's all a matter of money.

Tramp is use able as long as you go with the same beams.

Foils are totaly useable.

None of it would be optimal, but doesn't stop you having a quick fun boat, that fits F16 rules.

Put some new hulls under the hardware and you will have a very good F16 singlehander in my opinion. Dont know how the mast would do with two on the wire, but it might very well be just fine. Go for it!

Hi jeff,

Sail area is 164 sqft for the F16 vs. 150sqft. However the F16 rule limit mast height and luff length. Maybe you have to add mast tipp weight to fulfil the mast tip weight rule. If the A-cat mast is designed to the limits, I would doubt if it strong enough for a crew of two and spi.
At the end the strongest argument is that you lack more than 10% sail area. What about letting the rig as it is and add a spi, get a true F16 mast and main, use the same spi and you have a nice two rig option?

Cheers,

Klaus

Is the mainsail on an F16 really larger than an A-cat mainsail? I never checked..

Jeff, what was you thinking. New hulls and keep the rest, or? Buy a used spi? Homebuilding as much as possible, or buying but spending as little as possible? I think you will find some master scroungers here

Thanks for all the replies guys.
I'm thinking that if the hardware is suitable building new hulls to slide under the hardware as long as I dont compromise the new cat too much. Then overtime after I've sorted the junior sailing out I could add the proper bits.
I think the mast would struggle with 2 on the wire but this would be my single hander cat, as the Nacra covers me 2 up.
I'll post some pic's of the hardware, if you could let me know how suitable, but off course I'll start with the pic of the damage. (everyone loves a broken cat pic).
regards

Hardware looks excellent to me. Your curved traveller can be a pain when sailing, but otherwise, just add the spi gear, new hulls and go with what you have.
Mainsail might be something to ponder, and the same for re-rigging the mast.

Thank's Rolf do you think in the short term I could just sail with the main off the A without recutting it, as I'm not sailing against anyother F16 here. Would they be too wrong for some Blade hulls?
regards Jeff

I bet you soon think I will say anything to make you convert the broken boat into an F16

Sure you can sail with the unmodified A-cat rig. If you have a higher mast and higher aspect ratio than the F16s, you will be more prone to cartwheeling. Have a look at Florians excellent model here to get a quick introduction to the differences. http://www.diversediverse.com/rolf/florin/Prosjekt-hard-milk/hard_milk.html (you can rotate and zoom the model)
You boat will not qualify as an F16 until it measures in though, as I am certain you already understand. When the day comes, you can get a new mast or rebuild the one you have. Put on a new mainsail and be going as an F16. I would not drop the spi though!

Anyway, it would be a shame to let what is a mostly complete boat dwindle away when you can put new hulls on and sail it instead.

Jeff-
You are in the right place (Aus) to do this! All you need to do is get a nice used Taipan 4.9 main (the class just recently "updated" the class main to a fathead square top so there should be lots of nice older mains- heck I've got 3 but shipping you one over there might be too much!!), cut your mast down from the top, build some nice Blade hulls or even Taipan hulls and you are set. The original Taipan was based on the old Auscat so used all the same boards/rudders/etc. I would love to have a radial traveller on my Taipan! If you are used to them on "A"'s it won't be a problem IMO. I also have an old "A" woodie- a Lindahl design so it has very long sterns and I could even cut enough off the sterns to shorten it to 5m and turn it into an F16! It's too heavy now for "A"'s but should be about right for F16 weight!
Another option for the sail, not as good as the used Taipan option, might be to cut the top off and add some sections at the bottom to increase area?

Good luck!

Kirt

Jeff,

Mast: Depending on its age, it might be totally suitable. Weigh it and/or measure the stiffness as discussed around here somewhere and post the results. If its too light (not stiff enough) you can definately win some strength back by leaving the hounds up high and if need be adding some inner diamonds (they're a pain in the butt but the price is right).

Beams, obviously the beams are too short. Do you still have the beams and tramp off your T? These could be cut down to suit and you'd end up with a really stiff platform.

Foils: The dagger boards will be undersized as your F16 will probably be deeper than the A and will definately have more righting moment and a lower mast. However, A cats are usually designed with the boards providing most if not all of the hydrodynamic lift. If you move the boards fwd some of this lift will be provided by the rudders. You will of course have to rake these under further to reduce the weather helm. Alternately you could once again look to your T and use its rudders (if they still exist).

In short, between your two wrecks you definately have the majority of the bits needed for an F16.

On a side note can you call me on my mobile (0400 628 379) during the week to discuss delivery of your F12 bits.

SC

Thank's for the replies guys, I don't need convincing to own a 16ft single hander with spin, I'm sold on that idea and I thought this would kickstart me into it but reading between the lines I'm better off doing it properly. Theres a good market for my main and the mast is that light for my weight that I have to sacrifice mast rotation to pull the main on or it lays over so I'll probably just sell the bits off and do a proper job on the F16 when I get organised. I havn't got anything left from the T, the guy building the trimaran got the whole lot and the beautifull rudders went when I sold the Stingray. Scarecrow thats great news I'll ring this week to get the F12 bits and that'll be my next project.
regards

I would tend to contradict. The Spi height and area are the key parameters for nose-diving, the main adds only heeling moment, because it flies in the downwind of the spi. If you sail down wind with the main alone, than yes the boat would probably be prone to nose diving. However if you have a spi you would use it, even if it is blowing.
So said, if you have a spi which is not larger and heigher than that of an F16, then you are not less safe than an ordinary F16.
It is at least my expierence (I sail with an A-cat mast and sail plus spi).

Cheers,

Klaus