| CG Life jacket and thowable work around JW? #165488 01/20/09 10:05 PM 01/20/09 10:05 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider OP
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | John
Following your experience this past weekend with the lasers.
Any idea what an effective work around we need to include in the SI's to deal with coast guard approved life jackets and CG throwable requirements in the USSA Prescriptions. ( I always forget about those buggers).
Is the best way an SI instruction that the violations of this rule are not subject to competitor protest.
Thanks Mark
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: CG Life jacket and thowable work around JW?
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#165492 01/20/09 10:58 PM 01/20/09 10:58 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | John
Following your experience this past weekend with the lasers.
Any idea what an effective work around we need to include in the SI's to deal with coast guard approved life jackets and CG throwable requirements in the USSA Prescriptions. ( I always forget about those buggers).
Is the best way an SI instruction that the violations of this rule are not subject to competitor protest.
Thanks Mark
I knew this day was coming. Having been sponsored by a small life jacket manufacturing company out of NC and knowing some others, the US Coast Guard approval process is prohibitive and incredibly expensive. Even a color change of the fabric requires a whole new approval filing. CE (Central European) approval is much easier to obtain and so a lot of life jacket manufacturers have been working under this approval. US Sailing's racing rules specify USCG approval and I'm nearly certain that the USCG requires this of boaters using US waterways. It's a tricky situation.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: CG Life jacket and thowable work around JW?
[Re: Jake]
#165554 01/21/09 12:08 PM 01/21/09 12:08 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider OP
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | It get's worse
The prescriptions say that you can't waive rule 40. So the old workaound of the competitor can't protest this rule is out unless you want to shift responsibility to the regatta PRO who gets to decide that he doesn't want to enforce coast guard approval.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: CG Life jacket and thowable work around JW?
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#165561 01/21/09 12:35 PM 01/21/09 12:35 PM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,253 Columbia South Carolina, USA dave mosley
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Posts: 1,253 Columbia South Carolina, USA | I we do away with US Sailing, then we are free to govern ourselves as we please. I say we go sail without rules, rights, or restrictions! All's fair in Love and Sailing! On a serious note, can SI's dictate rules in the US without using the RRS? How hard would that be to run a race, and what are our options? Do other countries sail byu the RRS prescriptions, or is that a US thing?
The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27
| | | Re: CG Life jacket and thowable work around JW?
[Re: dave mosley]
#165565 01/21/09 12:53 PM 01/21/09 12:53 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider OP
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | every country has prescriptions... Ours are set by USSA.
The coast guard thing is a federal law... Who wants to step forward and say... I will officially tell you to ignore that fed law?
Very different then a personal decision to play " catch me if you can"
Now i haven't had a thowable class III preserver on the boat for buoy racing or fun in 15 years.... but it bothers me to reailize i have been breaking the RR of the game.
How do you go about ignoring one rule... (wear coast guard jacket) and not the other... sail around A mark and don't touch it.
Oh... I know the solution..... Do away with all mention of life jackets and CG approved standards in the RR, prescriptions and SI's AND LEAVE IT UP TO THE Captain!
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: CG Life jacket and thowable work around JW?
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#165574 01/21/09 01:49 PM 01/21/09 01:49 PM |
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,152 tampa, fl ksurfer2
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Posts: 1,152 tampa, fl | There was just an article on the front page of SA regarding a junior regatta. A protest was filed against a competitor for not wearing a USCG approved lifevest. The protest was not upheld. What kind of message does that send?
If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one | | | Re: CG Life jacket and thowable work around JW?
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#165576 01/21/09 01:53 PM 01/21/09 01:53 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider OP
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | Rolf
The prescriptions to the rules are added to the RRS and are national. I think the RRS define the pfd just as you do. The problem here is that most prescriptions cannot be waived by the OA even if they wanted to.
The last one was for the absolute requirement for membership in a national authority eg USSA was one of those prescriptions that would not have been able to be waived...
You make a good point about the Tornado's that were removing flotation from their PFD's. Who should be responsible here?
Last edited by Mark Schneider; 01/21/09 01:55 PM.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: CG Life jacket and thowable work around JW?
[Re: ksurfer2]
#165577 01/21/09 01:55 PM 01/21/09 01:55 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California John Williams
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Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California | Karl - you don't quite have the facts right. The protest was upheld and the penalty was a written warning. While I have seen many people in catsailing with less-than-USCG kit, apparently it is a rampant problem in the Laser class. This was the very first protest on the issue, I believe. I think the warning will be effective in getting the word out, and I think you will see discussion of making the rule fit reality better.
John Williams
- The harder you practice, the luckier you get - Gary Player, pro golfer
After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
| | | Re: CG Life jacket and thowable work around JW?
[Re: John Williams]
#165581 01/21/09 01:57 PM 01/21/09 01:57 PM |
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,152 tampa, fl ksurfer2
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Posts: 1,152 tampa, fl | I hate to bring up manufacture names, but I believe the PFD in question is the Zhik. THis is a really nice piece. Can anyone chime in as to whether or not there are steps being taken to get this PFD USCG certified?
If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one | | | Re: CG Life jacket and thowable work around JW?
[Re: mbounds]
#165589 01/21/09 02:26 PM 01/21/09 02:26 PM |
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway Rolf_Nilsen
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Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway | "Each person on board shall carry a lifesaving device or Personal Flotation Device (PFD) approved by their country’s national authority or by the national authority having jurisdiction."
Nice definition. | | | Re: CG Life jacket and thowable work around JW?
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#165592 01/21/09 02:32 PM 01/21/09 02:32 PM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,200 Vancouver, BC Tornado
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Posts: 1,200 Vancouver, BC | Not that long since I got some pics from an US high level event where one of the top dogs had modified their PFDs. Handstitching was really obvious. According to what Jake wrote, they could have been protested for it, but nobody knows if they would be dsq.
Here you go: US Tornado Nats '07. More than one team were doing this. I think it's a Zhik PFD.
Mike Dobbs Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
| | | Re: CG Life jacket and thowable work around JW?
[Re: Tornado]
#165594 01/21/09 02:35 PM 01/21/09 02:35 PM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,200 Vancouver, BC Tornado
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Posts: 1,200 Vancouver, BC | The best solution I've heard is to play by the rules...PFD makers will see sales drop off in USA, respond by following up on USCG approval...and all will be well again. The makers currently realize they don't need USCG approval to make sales in the USA...hence the problem.
Last edited by Tornado; 01/21/09 02:36 PM.
Mike Dobbs Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
| | | Re: CG Life jacket and thowable work around JW?
[Re: mbounds]
#165595 01/21/09 02:36 PM 01/21/09 02:36 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider OP
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | So Matt
How does Hobie HCA get around the throwable requirement of the US Coast Guard?
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: CG Life jacket and thowable work around JW?
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#165614 01/21/09 04:25 PM 01/21/09 04:25 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
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Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | So Matt
How does Hobie HCA get around the throwable requirement of the US Coast Guard?
They don't. If your boat is over 16' long and you don't carry a throwable, then you are subject to protest. Since nobody carries throwables, nobody protests. So if you show up to an event, and someone has a throwable tied to their boat - you'd better look out. | | |
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