I finally know what it's like when I talk to non-Jeep people about Jeeps.

I'd love to come check out your cat Harry but that's quite a hike to there and I have to work Sunday night. I'm in Sparrows point, closer by water to you than land. With the season that it is I doubt I will get it out before spring, so I should have plenty of time to get everything straightened out.

I've been out of town for the last 2 days but I'm catching up on reading the Jib luff tension adjustment post, trying to grasp it all.

Hi MD Blow Boater,

Ya, you are correct, I can stand at Graditude/RockHall Harbor and see Sparrow's Point but it is a 2 1/2 hr drive by car to get there.

I have a friend who lives on Bodkin Creek and sails his beach cats out of there .... I for years sailed out of the Flanigan's property which is just south of Anne Arundel County's "Jack" Downs County Park and north of Gibson Island .... so if you see Beach Cats to your south they are my friends or even me as I sometimes return to sail there.

I hope you understand what I was trying to discribe about the bowfoil/jib luff tensioner and Trapeze Bungie systems.

I will try and borrow a digital camera and take some pic's ... I have several projects that I'm helping w/ that require me to take pic's and E-Mail them out ... my 13yr old niece has promised to help me w/ the E-Mailing part ...

My E-Mail address is listed in my profile or you can send me a PM (Private Message) through this forum

FYI- for local Chesapeake Beach Cat Racing information please go to www.sailcrac.com .... in June we have a "Open Class Start" at Rock Hall Yacht Club ...in July we have two more local Open Class events at Cambridge Yacht Club and Corsica River Yacht Club (Centerville Md) ... there is also racing at Gailsville/West River, I just do not know the dates/times.

Keep in touch

Sail Flat, Sail Fast, Sail Safe
Harry Murphey
H18Mag/#9458, Fleet54/Div11
P19MX/#86,CRAC-Open Class
Rock Hall Yacht Club

MD Blow Boater:

Welcome to cat sailing on the Chesapeake. In addition to Harry's list. There is a "casual" weekend event around the corner out of Gunpowder State Park in May. A good opportunity to meet some of the local catsailors.

The West River races are Tuesday nights, spring and summer; and Sunday noonish for frostbite.

Kris Hathaway
F-16
WRCRA


Pssss...If you get frustrated with refitting the N5.8, I have a 2003 Nacra F-18, in great shape and cheap.

Thanks for reminding me Kris, I called Danny Flanigan and he said the tentative date for Gunpowder should be May 2nd & 3rd. The date will be confirmed in early December.

Harry Murphey
TheMightyHobie18/#9458, Fleet54/Div11
P19MX/#86, CRAC-Open Class

Hey guys. I'm back and been working on the boat some more. I just replaced a sheave today on the base of the mast and I'm trying to figure out the downhaul system. The owners manual is worthless for this, and I'm not even sure this is standard.

Here are some pics.

Starboard:


Port:


Here is a guess of mine but it doesn't involve the extra block on the bottom. I also added a free hanging one to the set up.


I don't need an overly complicated system. I'd just like to use what I have for now. So, please tell me if I am way off. I'm guessing the other cleat and pulleys are for the jib?

EDIT: I just thought about this. Could I use a double block at top and run it down to both of those lower pulleys? And if I do that could I dead end it on the bottom of the upper pully instead of the mast itself?

both of those blocks on the side of the mast should be used in the downhaul. there generally isnt part of the downhaul dead ended to the mast unless you are trying to make a cascading system.
however, looking at the other side of your mast there isnt the same configuration so forget what I said.... your mast isnt playing by the rules


The system you diagramed should give you 6:1 if I am correct which, depending on your boat/mast/sailing conditions might be enough but I have 8:1 on the Blade and had 12:1 (but now that i think about it, maybe it was 14:1 when i doubled it with the cascade)on the 6.0. I think N20s run at least 12:1?

EDIT: I just thought about this. Could I use a double block at top and run it down to both of those lower pulleys? And if I do that could I dead end it on the bottom of the upper pully instead of the mast itself?


Yes, I think that would work and would give you 8:1 (once, again, I believe)

Hi,

You kind of have the idea but not quite the execution. Here's how I "THINK" it would be rigged.

First you need a "Harken Micro Triple Block tied to a piece of 1/4"dia line approximentlly 18" long ... that gets rigged through the grommet on the sail and down to the "JR Jam Cleat on the side away from the "Cheek Blocks" with the block dangling under the sail, OK?

Next, Take your downhaul line and tie one end to the "padeye" just above the "Cheek block" in the middle ... take the line UP through the "Triple Block"(end sheeve) ... then down and through the "Cheek Block" in the front ...UP again and through the "Triple Block"(middle) ... then down and through the middle "Cheek Block" (just below the padeye) ... back UP to the "Triple Block"(other end) then down and through the "Exit Block" in the "Luff Track" .... OK???? You may need to try different orders of threading to eliminate any "crosses/twists" so the line feeds CLEANLY.

Now, here's the "Trick" to the system ... to remove the sail, just remove the single line attached to the "Triple Block" from the "Jr Jam Cleat" and out of the "Grommet" ... and the sail is ready to come down.

Not a bad of a system actually. Now what alot of us have is what you have on the one side of your mast on BOTH sides of our masts w/ two "Exit Blocks". This will double the ratio of the downhaul, make it continious and makes it adjustable from both sides. (we tie the downhaul to the traps or shrouds on either side so as to reachable on either tack. To lowwer the sail we just untie the "Triple Block" from the sail ... leaving the rest of the downhaul rigged.

Next, I'm not sure ... but I think you have the wrong "Mast Rotator Control Arm" or at least there is a "Up-Graded" part (Mast Over-Rotator Arm availible at Murray's P/N 25-3040 or 25-3041 {different size bolt holes}) ... This type of "rotator control arm" allows the mast to be over-rotated for increased performance downwind.

Harry Murphey

Ok, I just drew what you described. I totally understand now. And the 1/4" line just runs bare though the grommet?

Thanks guys for the pointers. Now I have to go buy myself a micro triple block.

G'day again I've been having great fun on my 5.8 while you've been hybernating. I took some photo's of the downhaul setup on my 5.8, this has a continuous sheet that you put around your sidestays and tie the ends together so that your crew can use it on the wire. You just put the hooks through the eye in your sail and pull down.
I sorted out my jib downhaul by putting a camcleat on the chainplate on the bridal foil. Previously I had it go around a block then to a cleat on the main beam but this made the bowfoil rotate upwards into the wrong position to support the mast.
regards

More photo's

Hi,

Yes, the line runs "bare" through the grommet and down to the Jr Jam Cleat ..... or to that padeye on the port side down low. On a second look/thought you maybe currect that the "cheek block and Jr Jam Cleat maybe used together to give you some mechanical advantage and cleat for you jib halyard. I'ld have to see your halyard to determine that. Do you have a pulley up high on the forestay? Is there a 1/4" length of line attached at the end of the halyard??? How long?

That system would be a rudamentory "Jib Luff Adjustment".

I think you need to see my P19MX ... it has the up-graded systems (adjustable from the trapeze)that can be installed on your boat quite easily and fairly cheaply.

Small Steps ... one at a time.


At this point, I would suggest that the first priorities be that you purchase/install the "Over Rotator (Controll) Arm" since you have NO Over-Rotation at all, next up-grade your downhaul system. The "Arm" is the cheapest, quickest upgrade and really helps the boats downwind speed. The downhaul will be slightly more expensive w/ the additional "exit block" for the other side being the most expensive part plus some other misc parts. After installing them, then I would consider changing the "Jib Luff Adjustment" system over to something like mine that is adjustable from the wire/trapeze.


Keep in Touch ..... maybe I can stop by and see your boat sometime. I can route myself over the Francis Scott Key Bridge when I'm headed south to Gibson Island or Annapolis ....

Harry Murphey

Hi Jeff,

Nice clean looking boat you have there "Down Under". I'm studing your pics but I think I'm missing something .... how does the downhaul line pass behind/aft of the mast, from side to side??? does that shackle w/ a pigtail and sm block get attached to the grommet/sail that I see in one of the pics??? And the other blocks w/ the "cunningham hooks" get hung onto either side of the sail at the grommet???

I don 't see the Over-Rotator Arm on your boat .... most of the N5.8's over here have been retro-fitted with one for windward-leeward race courses. What's your thought's???

Yes, I the same problem when I installed the bowfoil on my P19MX ... but I experimented w/ the location of some cheek blocks on the foil and made the system adjustable from both port and starboard sides ... the line runs out through a camcleat from the crossbar (at the hulls) to the end of the foil on both sides ... turns on a cheek block and crosses the bowfoil ... as it passes from side to side it passes through a small block w/ a small shackle. This shackle get attached to the tack of the jib. The shaft/post of the small block allows the block to spin 360degrees so the jib can assume the correct "entry into the wind". I had to drill out the shaft/post slightly so the shackle's pin would fit. With the rig tension on the P19MX if I "pull" the bowfoil, I know I have on too much jib luff tension. That may not be the case on a N5.8, I do not know how much rig tension is correct for a N5.8 ....

Again I like the pics ... it always nice to see how others have solved problem ... there's usually more then one solution. (I got a (cheap) Digital Camera for Christmas, now I just need to learn how to post pics on the forum ....)


Harry Murphey

These are some slick rigs you guys have. This summer mine is going to be for pure recreation and then I'll be ready to dump some more money into it next winter to get everything top notch. (The Harken Cat Quick Rig Downhaul block looks like an easy, although expensive, way to switch to a downhaul system similar to what you and most serious guys are running. Murrays PN 28-0359)

As for the jib halyard I honestly have no idea how that is currently set up. I might try to pull it all out tomorrow and have a look/take some pictures. So far I'm working in baby steps.

And the mast over rotator, I checked it out on Murrays. It doesn't look very much different from what is on it now(un-trained eye)?

I'd love to see you boat. A friend of mine is driving down to south in 2 weeks to pick up a Nacra 6.0 and we are open to see any and all designs that people have so we can get ours properly set up. Once you have it rigged up for the season we'd definitely want to come check it out, if you are willing.

You've already got the mast rotator, it's in front of the mast and allows you to positively lock the rotation so the mast doesnt flap around in chop and light wind you can see it and how its rigged in photo's 4 and 5 I posted. You will also have a cleat on each side of the mast, a piece of sheet will go from the beam to the mast rotator back to the cleat. Once you get used to it you'll love it.
I would really recommend a good downhaul system as you will use it all the time, if you pull your main on the sail will stretch out of shape if you dont pull your downhaul on at the same time and its also the way you will keep your cat flat.
For your downhaul all you need are 2 x 20mm double blocks, 2 hooks and 1 (Ronstan RF5) or (Harken 291 pivoting exit block), you can pick these up on e-bay quite cheap. The pivoting block in my picture of the jib downhaul is a Harken, I bought 3 for $15 on e-bay. The sheet feeds continuously through all the blocks, goes around your sidestays and is tied together on your tramp. This enables your crew to just reach down next to the sidestay grab the sheet and adjust the downhaul. Harry if you look in the photos you can see it goes through the pivoting exit block up and down through the blocks then goes to the other side of the mast does the same before exiting through the pivoting exit block.
Your jib setup will work no matter what it is for now because its not as important as your downhaul, you will probably have a block on one end of sheet that goes through a block at the top of the forestay and attatches to the jib. You will probably need to tie one end of another sheet to the saddle on the bottom of your mast then pass it through the block back down to the V cleat at the base of your mast. When you put your mast up you tension your rig using the forestay so you dont need to super crank down on your jib halyard it shouldn't make your forestay go slack. The easiest way for now if you dont have anything but a block at the top of the forestay is to just attatch a halyard to your jib thread it through the top block then pull it down your jib luff and tie it off on your bow foil.
Harry to post pics click the "full screen" button, click "file manager" and follow the steps
regards

Hi Guys,

First the "Over-Rotator": Jeff what you have on your boat is called a Rotator Controll Arm (according to the catalogs). A "Over-Rotator Arm is trapizoidal in shape (almost triangular) ... you replace the Rotator Control Arm w/ the Over-Rotator Arm with the small end mounting on the mast and install the lines diagonally, crossing to the other side in the front corners (port to starb and starb to port ...Ok??? Now when you pull on the adjustment line it will "over-rotate the mast an extra 10-15 degrees when you are sailing downwind. Combined with the easing of the outhaul, traveler and mainsheet the pocket is moved forward and the sail is much fuller ..... it makes a huge difference going downwind in light to medium conditions, heavy air not so much ..... w/o a spinnacker.

My forestay is set-up like Jeff's on the bottom ... my jib halyard (non-stretch Spectra) is set-up basically like a Hobie 18 with the halyard going up the forestay w/ a turning point up high and returning down the forestay and being attached to the chainplate adjuster w/ a small shackle. This means the jib is fixed at the head/top and tension adjustment is applied at the tack as I discribed above. When we round the leeward mark my crew will pre-adjust the jib luff to remove the wrinkles .... after we have rounded and I've sheeted the main in, my crew will then re-adjust/fine tune the mast rotation, downhaul, outhaul and jib luff adjustments as required. I do have a 3X1 on the jib luff system as it runs from the bowfoil back to the front crossbar to make adjustment easier and 'finer", Ok???

Second: my P19MX downhaul is almost designed exactly like yours ... but I have a additional "Single Block" attached to the mainsail at the grommet. So when my line exits that cheek block closest to the mast base/luff track, it goes up and through the single block crossing over the boom and down to the cheek block on the other side at the mast base then through the rest of cheek blocks/blocks and exiting through the "Exit Block"... is that how your system is configured??? Thats what I'm confused on ... how the line "crosses over".

Jeff, does your bowfoil move slightly side to side??? I installed diagonal lines (in an "X")of 1/8" spectra to keep the bowfoil centered and locked in place ... Just replace the clevis pins on your bridle pigtails with small shackles so you have somewhere to tie the spectra to. I like shackles w/ captive pins ... I almost dis-masted once when I pulled the clevis ring out and then lost the pin from the side-stay to anchor pin... luckily we saw it before we tacked (close one!!!! we were in a distance race on the far side of the bay w/o anyone in sight to help)

Got to run now
Harry Murphey

Md,

You don't need to spend all that $$$'s on that fancy Harkin Downhaul system ... and you'll need to modify it anyway. You can re-use what you have and only need to buy half the parts. As I offered above, I can come by and discuss w/ you some ideas that will save you some $$$$$'s .... I believe you have my E-Mail address (it's in my profile also) or send me a PM here on the forum.

And please plan on coming/attending the Gunpowder Regatta (May 4-5th) and RHYC (June 20th-21st) ... and we'll get you "started" (Ha, Ha, Ha ... there's a joke in there)

Harry

I think I found what the previous owners were using for the down haul. It's the way you described but with a double block.


And here is what I have for the jib halyard. It's a cable with a pulley that comes off of the forestay and then at bottom is a rope with another block on it.



Rope end.


Ideas?

G'day again the first photo looks like my original jib halyard tensioner but would certainly work as your current downhaul.
Whats the 3rd photo attatched to? That will give me the clue of where things end up.
The second photo is your jib halyard the end your showing attatches to the top of the jib. If the third photo is the other end of your jib halyard, that will go from where the rope's tied to the becket down to the block on the base of the mast back up through the block in photo 3 then into the V cleat.
regards

I agree ....

Harry Murphey