Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Chute sailing #173061
03/27/09 12:08 PM
03/27/09 12:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 91
Dunedin, FL
H
Headhunter Offline OP
journeyman
Headhunter  Offline OP
journeyman
H

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 91
Dunedin, FL
After 20 years of sailing cats I know absolutely nothing about spin flying.

So I have a question for all you spinnaker guys. While sailing aboard my buddy's mystere 5.5 he cranks in the main sheet while downwind then sets the chute, and keeps the main sheeted. He claims this is because the boat doesn't have a backstay and without a sheeted main we would demast.

My question is, the chain plates for the shrouds are aft of the forward beam...aren't they strong enough to hold the mast up by themselves?

For deep downwind sailing it makes more sense to me to ease way off on the main even with the spinnaker up.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Chute sailing [Re: Headhunter] #173063
03/27/09 12:14 PM
03/27/09 12:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Your friend is correct. Make sure you let off the downhaul as well.

Furthermore, your apparent wind is so far forward than sheeting in is actually the correct trim for the main.


Re: Chute sailing [Re: ThunderMuffin] #173064
03/27/09 12:22 PM
03/27/09 12:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
The spinnaker bail is usually mounted well above the hounds so if you don't give the top of the mast some type of back-support via the mainsail leach being tight, in a good puff + stuff scenario, you could break the mast.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Chute sailing [Re: Timbo] #173065
03/27/09 12:25 PM
03/27/09 12:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 93
virginia beach, VA
dsltrc Offline
journeyman
dsltrc  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 93
virginia beach, VA
your shrouds don't go all the way to the top of the mast, so if you didn't sheet in when flying your spin you would probably pull the unsupported part of the mast(above the mast tang) forward till it failed... so wen you sheet in the sail acts like the backstay....


Last edited by dsltrc; 03/27/09 12:25 PM.

Jason DiPietro supercat 19
Re: Chute sailing [Re: ThunderMuffin] #173066
03/27/09 12:26 PM
03/27/09 12:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
Originally Posted by Undecided

Furthermore, your apparent wind is so far forward than sheeting in is actually the correct trim for the main.


by the same logic, why do we "blow" the rotation downwind? It seems excessive to allow 90 degree rotation when the apparent wind is still ahead. I don't go to 90 deg, but you get my point.

Re: Chute sailing [Re: Headhunter] #173067
03/27/09 12:28 PM
03/27/09 12:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
old hand
Mugrace72  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by Headhunter
the chain plates for the shrouds are aft of the forward beam...aren't they strong enough to hold the mast up by themselves?


They probably would do the job if the spin halyard sheave was at the same point as the shroud tang. However, most cats have the halyard somewhat to way above this point.

That causes the top part of the mast to go forward, inverting the mast, bending it the wrong way. When that happens, it may fail at the weakest point in it's column.

The mainsail through the mainsheet keeps the mast bend positive and the bend in the lower portion is restrained by the mainsail cloth.


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: Chute sailing [Re: PTP] #173075
03/27/09 01:07 PM
03/27/09 01:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by PTP
Originally Posted by Undecided

Furthermore, your apparent wind is so far forward than sheeting in is actually the correct trim for the main.


by the same logic, why do we "blow" the rotation downwind? It seems excessive to allow 90 degree rotation when the apparent wind is still ahead. I don't go to 90 deg, but you get my point.


What an echo in here! ;-)

What they said.

We rotate to 90 because although the apparent wind does move forward, it rarely comes much more forward than 70 degrees. It's still much more to the side than when you sail upwind.

In light air, you will find it necessary to induce a bit of twist in the main - particularly so the bit of sail above the spinnaker can still breath as it is mostly unaffected by the redirection of air over the main. In moderate to heavy air, being sheeted hard IS proper trim and the additional mast rotation helps induce some extra fullness in the mainsail for a little more power.


Jake Kohl
Re: Chute sailing [Re: Jake] #173098
03/27/09 05:56 PM
03/27/09 05:56 PM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S



When you're sailing upwind efficiency = speed = height so you set the mast rotation to maximise the lift to drag ratio. When you turn downwind, power becomes king and efficiency is less important. Rotating the mast will increase the available power. Also note that the main is eased a little its not cranked hard like upwind.

The good guys (Bundy etc) play the main downwind but you have to be very confident in what you're doing because we mere mortals have a tendancy to dump main when we get in trouble and as noted above dumping main can equal dumping mast.

Re: Chute sailing [Re: ] #173100
03/27/09 07:05 PM
03/27/09 07:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 70
B
ButchG Offline
journeyman
ButchG  Offline
journeyman
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 70
So, dump the downhaul, sheet in tight.

Can you move the traveller to optimize lift?


"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."


ButchG
Prindle 19 w/Spi
Re: Chute sailing [Re: ButchG] #173101
03/27/09 07:10 PM
03/27/09 07:10 PM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S



You can but its not as fast as playing main. Much safer though.

Re: Chute sailing [Re: ] #173102
03/27/09 07:18 PM
03/27/09 07:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 70
B
ButchG Offline
journeyman
ButchG  Offline
journeyman
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 70
Ok...next nube chute driver question......

How tight?


"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."


ButchG
Prindle 19 w/Spi
Re: Chute sailing [Re: ButchG] #173108
03/27/09 08:55 PM
03/27/09 08:55 PM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S



tight enough.

Re: Chute sailing [Re: ] #173110
03/27/09 09:13 PM
03/27/09 09:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 70
B
ButchG Offline
journeyman
ButchG  Offline
journeyman
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 70
there ya go with them dang technical terms again wink


"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."


ButchG
Prindle 19 w/Spi
Re: Chute sailing [Re: ButchG] #173111
03/27/09 09:27 PM
03/27/09 09:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Most do ease the traveler when going downwind, maybe a foot or two depending on wind strength and headings to marks. If you don't have leach tell tales, get some, then trim to those.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Chute sailing [Re: Timbo] #173116
03/28/09 01:58 AM
03/28/09 01:58 AM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S



Timbo, there are better sailors than me around and you might be one of them. But from a speed point of view I'd advise against dropping the traveller unless you're having trouble laying a mark.

Butch about a foot should be fine. Keep an eye on your rig and you'll soon get a feel for the correct setting with your rig. Timbo is right leach lines are very important for max performance.

Last edited by Scarecrow; 03/28/09 01:58 AM.
Re: Chute sailing [Re: ] #173117
03/28/09 02:45 AM
03/28/09 02:45 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Adjusting the traveller a foot or not would depend on the type of boat in my thinking. What angle is the boat sailing for best VMG, and how can the main be set to complement the spi. The speed and the telltales will give the answer. If you know the best angle for the conditions, it should be relatively easy to trim the main to the spi by looking at the telltales and the feel in the boat.

Saying that downwind power is everything is a bit.. rough? A kite with a lot of draft will give more power, and drag. It was when we moved to kites with less draft we really got speed. In line with the same thinking, not letting the mast all out will in my humble experience give more speed when sailing downwind with spi, but it is harder on the mast so be careful.

Re: Chute sailing [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #173120
03/28/09 06:08 AM
03/28/09 06:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 126
Southampton UK
NacraKid Offline
member
NacraKid  Offline
member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 126
Southampton UK
Getting how far you let the mast out downwind is very important, we let it a certain amount but not all the way, i think crew weight on a boat like the f18 effects how much you let the mast out alot.

Re: Chute sailing [Re: Headhunter] #173193
03/30/09 08:00 AM
03/30/09 08:00 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by Headhunter
While sailing aboard my buddy's mystere 5.5 he cranks in the main sheet while downwind then sets the chute, and keeps the main sheeted. He claims this is because the boat doesn't have a backstay and without a sheeted main we would demast.


Apology accepted!!! ... don't ever question me again.... OR ELSE!!!! smile

Re: Chute sailing [Re: ] #173194
03/30/09 08:02 AM
03/30/09 08:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Happy Birfday Andrew.


Re: Chute sailing [Re: ThunderMuffin] #173205
03/30/09 08:39 AM
03/30/09 08:39 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by Undecided
Happy Birfday Andrew.


Thank you ...


Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 431 guests, and 84 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,404
Posts267,055
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1