Still trying to set up the 5.8 and I have two cleats a 4to1 downhaul for jib luff on the front of the mast that catches the jib leads. Is the jib luff adjusted during a race or should I just feed it down the zipper and tie it off?
How much tension do others use on the luff?
thanks in advance for your replies

i don't know the 5.8 setup but i doubt it has an "on the fly jib luff tensioner".

Most boats run it down the zipper pocket and tie it to the forstay/bridal area somehow.

Like most sails.. in heavy air you need it tighter than in light air. in heavy air i make it pretty snug.

take it down the luff and tie it off!

The BCC sell a chain plate with a cleat attached to the side of it and a sheave mounted inside it.

on Jack we had a cleat mounted on the bridal so we could adjust it on the water, but in reality it got adjusted quite rarely.

http://www.catsailor.org/photos/downhaul/imagepages/image3.html

Thanks guys that settles that question.
I've had really good results with the new setup Dazz, even leading a becalmed 5.7 by a leg off the line.
regards

There are two threads going asking about N5.8's w/ one being a N5.8NA .... so we will try to answer all questions here in a single post ....

Ok, I do not have a N5.8 but I copied a system I saw on a N6.0NA and installed it on my P19MX w/ some mod's ....

Now the N6.0NA and N5.8NA had "bowfoils" w/ lowwer attachment points for their jibs (longer jib luffs/bigger jibs)... but all models could be rigged w/ jib luff tensioners. The Nacra jib halyard at some point went down the front of the mast to a jam cleat ... that was changed to running the halyard back down the jib luff inside the zippered pocket and securing it at the forestay adjusterplate. So that set's the jib hieght, (I use 1/8" spectra for a jib halyard w/ a sliced loop that using a clevis pin is "pinned" @ the forestay adjuster, Ok? The head of the jib is secured w/ a sm shackle tied to the halyard.)

Now the Jib Luff Tensioner System: This system is adjustable from both sides, and allows the jib luff to "tack" from side to side for proper entry into the wind. I use a "snap shackle w/ swivel, that has a Harken Micro Block attached to the bottom of it to secure the jib to the boat .... I use 1/8" spectra that passes through the block, parallels the bridle wires down to the bridle attachment points on the hulls ... there replace the clevis pin using a sm twist shackle (w/ captive pin) and a Harken Air block, I pass the spectra through the block and then continue to the front crossbar where I have a camcleat mounted just "inside" the hull on both sides. Please note that I increase the line dia to 1/4" on the run to the camcleats so as to have better cleating in the camcleat. This system is basically the same concept for the "NA" models w/ bow foil, see explaination below .

Now I will back up and explain what I now about the bow foil. The Nacra 6.0NA & 5.8NA where set about 12" above the deckline, Ok? I set mine on my P19MX at 10" as I was tight for luff length ... My bow foil has a 1" pre-bend to it, so in effect My bowfoil is only 9" above the deckline. I do not know the pre-bend in a 6.0 NA Bow Foil. I origonally had wire pigtails made up but they quickly developed fractured strands as they were so short ... so I now use 1/8" spectra (looped around 3X's)for the pigtails ... Please note, I installed sm shackles at the attachment points at the ends of the foil and bridles to hull attachment points. To keep the foil centered I again used some 1/8" spectra and tied two diagonal crossing lines from side to side in an "X", (foil port end to starboard hull bridle point... foil starboard end to port hull bridle point)

When I purchased my bowfoil it was rigged for a jib luff tensioner system .... it has a cheek block mounted on either end on the top and has a padeye w/ a Harken Micro Block on either side of the "pelican striker" riveted to the bowfoil using the same holes as the pelican striker, so all I needed to do was re-string the jib luff tensioner through the blocks on the bowfoil. I just used a smaller swiveling block w/ a small shackle to connect to the jib.

That's how my P-19 MX is rigged today as it sits at the yacht club ... Pic's would be so much easier ... I just don't have a digital camera ....

To intall a spin pole I modified the diagonal bracing lines by installing two padeyes on the bottom of the bowfoil for attachment points just off the centerline allowing enough room for the spin pole on the centerline,( this way I can remove the pole w/o re-tieing the bracing lines)

Hope this information is helpful

Harry Murphey

Thank's for that info Harry
regards

Is it worse to have the jib luff adjustment run down the mast? My boat(5.8NA) is set up like JeffS, with the 4:1 system on the mast. But the forestay also has an attachment on it to run it down the forestay to the bridle.

I'm just curious if there is a benefit to one or the other. I assumed the mast way is better for me so I can adjust it from the boat. I know what type of system you are talking about to run it down the forestay, than back to the boat because my friend 6.0 has that. But I won't be going to that, at least for now.

Thanks.

Down the mast is a real pain with the blocks catching during tacks, I changed it to a block on the bridal foil going to a cleat on the main beam but that rotated the foil up to the wrong angle. In the end I just tied it to the foil end, which is what I'd seen on a near new 5.8 as I never had to adjust the tension on the water.
regards

Ok another question for you. Did the wire block for the jib attach to the mast by itself or to the top of the forestay? Mine is set up for either. I get the impression that going from the forestay then down the mast wouldn't work well.

Guys,

There are several advantages to the Jib Luff Tensioning System(s) I discribed above for both a "stock" P19 and P19MX w/ bowfoil. And please note, I copied these systems directly from a Nacra 6.0 and N6.0NA ... (Rick Bliss's if I remember correctly!!!!)

1) It allows the Jib to rotate/tack from side to side for more efficency by assuming "proper entry" to the wind w/ the use of a spinacker snap shackle w/ swivel

2) YES, we adjust our jib luff tension on the water during a race between upwind --- downwind.

3) The front of the mast is clean with nothing to hang the jib leads up on.

4) The system(s) discribed above in my earlier post are adjustable on either tack.

Tricks:

1) When I purchased the bowfoil from Performance I made a few easy modifications. First, there were two Harken cheek blocks riveted on the port end ... I re-positioned them ... I moved one to the starboard end of the bowfoil ... I set the boat up w/ the rig tensioned, then I experimented w/ the location of the cheek blocks on the bowfoil. I found that for my forestay angle that the cheek blocks should be mount just behind the front edge of the bowfoil at a point where the cheek block is level/horizontal, OK???? This way the bowfoil does not twist.

Secondly, there are two padeyes riveted to the bowfoil just off the centerline ... one too port, another too starboard. The port one should have a Harken Micro Block on it .... install a Micro Block on the starboard one also.

Now here's how it works ... (from the port side)... Through the camcleat mounted on the crossbar (portside) forward to the "port" cheek block, through that block and over to the port "Micro", through that micro up and through a swiveling block w/ sm shackle attached to the jib, next down and through the starbaord "Micro", continue over to the starboard end cheek block, through/around that cheek block and continue aft to the starboard end of the front crossbar and through a camcleat located there. Note: install the camcleats on the front crossbar just slightly aft of the highest point ... it helps w/ cleating

Also I have a 3X1 set-up on both sides between the bowfoil and crossbar ... anymore I have found to be overkill.

2) Use a "pigtail" on your Jib Leads. Take a piece of 1/8" Amsteel/spectra/vectra (etc) approximently 36"lg .... Tie it to the jib's clew plate ... you should now have two 18"lg leads to tie the jib blocks to ... BUT first tie the two leads together about 6-8" down from the clew ... you should have something that looks like a upside down Y. This will allow you to pull the jib and sheets through much easier. (and reduce your jibsheet length and "clutter" on the tramp.

Dinner's on the table ... got to go

Good Luck
Harry

Harry's system would work perfect when you are going to change settings but from what I've seen on the newer 5.8's is you don't have many alterations on these cats.
My jib setup went to a block at the top of the forestay then down to a double block that was then cleated at the base of the mast. My blocks got caught in this on a lot of tacks so I changed it to the same block at the top of the forestay then back down the luff to a double block on the foil back to the main beam to a cleat. This rotated the foil up a bit and I found it very easy to make the forestay go slack so that was obviously too much purchase. Then I saw a new 5.8 with a well regarded crew who have sailed 5.8's forever and their setup was to a small block on the foil that went to a cleat on the foil as they never changed that setting. The thing I love about the 5.8 is it's a very simple boat, they have basically one mast rake setting for all wind one jib block position and they give you time to react.

Hi Jeff,

Thank You for the compliment.

I believe the Jib Luff Adjustment is more important to us here on the Chesapeak Bay. I believe our winds are lighter and much more variable in the summer ... this means that we are usually sailing underpowered and always looking for more POWER (More Power,Ararrrrrrrrrrrr) Therefore the first reason I mentioned in my last post is important. In really light airs you ease the jib tension ... tack the boat, allowing the jib luff to tack/rotate also ... then ease the luff tension back on. Then downwind you just release/blow the Jib Luff Tensioning off completely, "bagging" the sail alittle and drive off downwind.

Now if the wind/breeze is up to lets say +8-10knots then I leave the Jib Luff Adjustment alone most of the time.

We race windwards-leewards mostly here, so being able to point high going to windward is important, and also being able to drive fast and deep is just as important .... I'm not that good but my competitors are .....

I hope my reasoning makes sense ....

Harry Murphey

Ah now it makes perfect sense Harry sorry I didn't read your post properly, we only have a couple of drifters here a year, the rest of the time its well over 10 when the seabreeze comes in and we race triangles (I couldn't live without a reach). I accidently eased my jib luff tension once in a bit of wind and couldnt pull it back on even with the double block no matter where I pointed.
regards

Ah Yes .... reaching along .... I remember the pretty rainbows made w/ the bowspray on the P19 has you run from "A" to "B" mark.

We also compete here in several "Point to Point" races, ie: Distance races, w/ course lengths from 35miles to ??? with the "Big" boats. GREAT PARTIES!!!! It took us several years to be accepted but now everyone cheers us as we charge by,(we start last) running down the PHRF A0 boats. Several times it's come down to a tacking duel between a 70-80ft monohull and a 20ft beach cat on the last beat to the finish line!!!!! I call it the "Mice among the Elephants" .... it is a HOOT .... Then everyone drinks beer together ....

So most of our 20ft beach cats here tend to be maximized out but also be very adjustable on the water because of the types of racing and highly varible conditions here on the Chesapeake Bay.

Harry