There are three rule change proposals which are up for discussion.

The system is that everyone can chew over the proposals and they can be modified (or dropped completely) until September when they become final and then they will be voted on 3 months later at the AGM at the Nationals.

The changes are in the attachment below.

Hi Tim,

they all make sense to me. It's good to see somebody putting in the effort to try and clean them up. Hopefully they will effect me again soon

hi guys
Yes its all good, but what happens if someone makes a mossie ands sails it for social with out being registered and then decides to sell the boat to a racer, as the boat could be 5 to 10 years old. the racer wants to register the boat and if so fits all the required measurements will you issue the racer with the next available number? cos then it will seem to be brand new but its acually 10 years old?

Matt

Good point Matt, but the sail number has never been a very good indication of a boats age, so I'm not sure that is a problem. Why would someone go to the trouble of getting a new boat and not bother measuring it anyway? Unless it doesn't measure of course!!

A bigger problem is how someone gets a new boat measured so they can get a sail number when the sails are part of the measurement process. It means a sail must be ordered without numbers and the numbers added later, or the certificate and sail numbers are issued without the sails being measured.

That raises the question of why sails are in the measurement form at all. Most people own more than one sail so it doesn't mean much to have only one of them measured. What really matters is the measurer's signature on the sail itself. Maybe the sails should be removed from the measurement form. That makes more sense to me and solves all the problems.

Hi all,

sail numbers have never been much of a indication of age as some people sat on plans with numbers, like Perfect Score it's number was 1111. But I was told it was built years later than it's number was allocated. Person just snaffled the number for a future boat.

hey

yeah i understand that
i have a set of plans i think 1806, and i prob wont build the boat as i have tried once and didn't work out. i have no time to build another one but i may still have them 10 years on and build one.
as i understand that other classes indercate the boats age by there sail number, for argument sake take my boat number 1705 and people know the boat and knew when it was built amd know its about 25 years old and still going strong and the measurement form say its about that too

Matt

All,

The proposals all make logical sense and if the changes to the deck round helps us make a boat more economical then it makes logical sense.

The measurements issues will hopefully elinimate repeats of previous issues and maybe there are other ways to prevent this from happening again. The down side of the sail numbers being issued after measurement, as it has been pointed out to me, is that it would require the owner to make 2 trips to his/her sailmaker, not a real big issue but could be just a pain for some.

Enjoy your weekend sailing all...and I will spend the weekend at sea (working, hmm)

David
Salpicon de Resplandor, 1744

Changing the time a new boat receives it’s sail number is impractical as it requires two trips to the sail maker, not a problem if you live around the corner, but a time consuming and costly task if you live interstate.
The problem at the moment is not the rules but how they are being enforced. We have a register of boats on the Website simply add a couple of columns of information containing measurement date or dates if measured more than once and measurers name. This list then can be moved to the National Site and updated by all states.
This will help cover a number problems;
One:- All sailors can view the information if they suspect a boat is sailing without a measurement certificate.
Two:- Sailors looking to buy a boat can check to see if it has been measured.
Three:- Sailors intending on sailing at titles will have to make sure their boat is on the list before entering or risk being refused entry.
Four:- Sailors rebuilding/changing require a new measurement certificate and this can be tracked if not by the owner then by other sailors.

Peter

The mosquito is a 2 distinct material boat. The original timber material and the newer fiberglass materials. The boat was designed as a timber boat and the existing rule relating to gunwale round reflects the requirement for a minimal round to ensure the timber boats don’t fail. The newer fiberglass boats don’t appear to have strength issues so what is the purpose of making the gunwale stronger?
The second problem is the moment we change a rule that intern changes the shape of the hull we date all existing boats and this will devalue them. From an external perspective ie, a new person to the class, the newer shaped boats will appear to be “better” as they do not understand that the change above the water does not make the boat any faster. The issue with this is that people won’t want to buy the “older” shape and will not be encouraged to buy cheaper, “older shape” secondhand boats.
We had a discussion this weekend with a none catamaran sailor and he was impressed that the mosquito has not gone down the road of high tech material and people could still build a timber boat for cheaper than a glass one and remain competitive.
In most cases it is still cheaper to build a timber boat then buy a glass one. By changing this rule we will be making the glass boat a fraction cheaper and the timber boats less attractive due to them being of the “older” design. Therefore we will be encouraging the more expensive route rather than encouraging the cheaper one!

Steven & Peter

Changing the procedure for issuing a sail number is not being suggested because of a problem with the rules. It's just a way to force the owners of Mosquitoes to take some responsibility for getting their boats measured.

The problem with making an extra trip to the sailmaker to get numbers put on can be avoided simply by removing the sails from the measurement form. This is an unneccesary duplication as it is. A measured sail on a measurement form tells us nothing. A person can bring along any sail to have their boat measured. The only thing that matters as far as sails are concerned is that every sail should have the signature of a measurer and a date on the sail. This should already be the case for any sail used at a Titles.

I don't think the boat register is the appropriate place for measurement information. For one thing it is a list of ALL known Mosquitoes which is way more than is needed for a simple measurement register. Most of the boats on the register are not being raced or are so old that the question of measurement is irrelevant.

I agree there should be a list of all boats on the NMCCA website with current measurement certificates, and that the boats on this list should be the only ones eligible for entry into State and National Titles. I also think this can be put in place for the coming National titles in NSW.

Boats in NSW and QLD are not a problem as we could still have a measuring session AT the Titles for those boats.

All good points but:



As far as I can see in the rules a titanium alloy aluminium honeycomb construction would be legal, as would concrete hulls (for the more aggressive sailor!) or injection moulded polyurethane (for a maintenance-free though rather floppy Mosquito!). There doesn't seem to be any material specified for building Mosquitoes.



The purpose is to make the boats easier to build - making the finishing of the gunwales easier and also allowing a builder who wants to build a new mould the option of making a two-piece mould. This seems to be a popular choice with some builders. The extra strength gained by a less sharp corner is a happy bonus.



Well if we were talking about a 100mm radius I would agree, but 10mm of shaping is not much more than has already appeared on a few Mosquitoes over the years which have gone by completely unnoticed until measurement time. I really don't think anyone would notice the difference.



That might be his perception but Mosquitoes have been built using foam, kevlar and carbon for almost as long as it's been available. Timber boats can still be competitive due to the class minimum weight and shape/size. Some good choices were made way back when these things were set. That's why Mosquitoes rock! Doesn't mean small refinements can't still be made though.



So making a glass boat slightly cheaper to build will encourage someone who was thinking of building a timber boat to maybe spend a bit more and get a glass/foam boat? They have the same choices but one of them is less expensive. Sounds like a good thing to me

Wow this got really long!

Tim
The fact is Hobie designed the 16 many years ago and reframed from changing it and as a result have sold 120,000 plus boats and are still selling today.
Laser have done the same thing except they are touching on 200,000 boats.
The Mossie is a one design boat with a little room to move within the rules. Apart from a weight change and construct materials in the late 80’s the hulls we use today still fit into the original rules written in the sixties.
Changing the rules and in turn the shape of the Hulls just because a boat builder wants to change the way the boat is made is not a good enough reason. Especially considering the current method used in glass boat has stood the test of time (20 years). If you have a talk to experienced boat builders that have used both two and three peace moulds. They are still out as to the best method.
The Mosquito is not a modern boat it is a design from the 60’s and you would have to agree the design is still putting in good performances today. Just this last weekend in one race the first boat over the line at the drought buster regatta was a F18 followed by your cat rig Mossie with spinnaker 2nd behind you there were Taipan’s, a stingray and other Mossie’s. A well sailed Mossie can mix it with the modern boats
We seem to be starting down the road of changes every year? For what reason? are we trying to be a development class like the A Class or do we want to be like the Hobie/Laser staying the same so people can buy a 20 year old boat do it up and be competitive. We have resisted this type of change in the past.
There is a age old saying “If it is not broken don’t fix it”

Peter

You can't compare Mosquitoes to Lasers and Hobies. They are SMODs and operate on a completely different manufacturer-driven philosophy (ie. pretending that the boats don't change while actually doing whatever the manufacturer thinks will sell more boats). Mosquitoes compare with classes like Arrows, Tornados, 125s, Sabres, Fireballs, 470s where the associations run things. In these sorts of classes rules get changed as needed (much more transparent).



Where did this come from? In 2000 the jib measurement rule was changed (back to the way it used to be from what I can tell). In 2001 the headboard rule was clarified and other rules were tightened up to stop possible "freak" boats. In 2007 wired trampolines were allowed, the spinnaker rule was added and various inconsistencies and mistakes were fixed up.
That's it for the last 12 years!

Tim
Changing the wording of a rule is rule changing.
Peter

Yes that's true.