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A-class Sail review #174378
04/09/09 11:00 AM
04/09/09 11:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 75
Ljubljana, Slovenia
mayhem Offline OP
journeyman
mayhem  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 75
Ljubljana, Slovenia
Several of us in our fleet need to buy new sails-- we finally have enough talent and years on the sails that it shows. Since it is quantity, it might be worth buying from far away.

Can I get some opinions on the choices and trade-offs. Here is what I think I know:
Top 3 producers are Ashby (AUS), Landenberger (German), and Glaser (USA).
- Any top race will see good showing from each (of course Ashby wins with his sails)
- each one makes it for the specific mast and sailor weight.
- Landenberger is about 1500 Euro complete with VAT, Glaser is $1300, and Ashby ???

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: A-class Sail review [Re: mayhem] #174406
04/09/09 08:05 PM
04/09/09 08:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
addict
windswept  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
Add RacerX and Peter Cogan of Evo to the list. I belive the Glaser is now $1450


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: A-class Sail review [Re: windswept] #174441
04/10/09 10:49 AM
04/10/09 10:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Randy Smyth was using a new boomless with a pointed top-leach area that looked very nice, not sure if he's selling them or if that was a one-time only sail. I liked that reverse pointed tip. Boeing is doing the same thing on the new 777's wingtips.


Blade F16
#777
Re: A-class Sail review [Re: Timbo] #174446
04/10/09 01:18 PM
04/10/09 01:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 29
A
AUS Offline
newbie
AUS  Offline
newbie
A

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 29
We have had a bunch of new Ashbys delivered to the US (i am based in the US) they are obviously good and the AUD (australian dollar) is currently very low. We land sails in US after freight and Duty with battens for $1400 - $1500 depending on the exchange rate on the day.

Re: A-class Sail review [Re: AUS] #174458
04/10/09 07:52 PM
04/10/09 07:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
dacarls Offline
old hand
dacarls  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
Randy is still working on his boomless concept- and getting faster all the time. If I could get close enough, I could maybe tell if his downwind legs are fast.
What has happened with Bimare/Gugglioli/North?


Dacarls:
A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16
"Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
Re: A-class Sail review [Re: dacarls] #174752
04/13/09 09:01 PM
04/13/09 09:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 170
Brisvegas
ACE11 Offline
member
ACE11  Offline
member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 170
Brisvegas
It's probably useful to look at which sails have been winning major championships with the leading sailors involved recently. There were no USA competitors in the recent Worlds so the USA produced sails haven't been tested yet against the traditionally fast sailmakers. The upcoming European Titles will be a good test as a number of new sails have been developed by Ashby and Brewin with bigger heads. 1100mm has been tried but they look like settling on 1m. General experience so far is that they are faster downwind but struggle a bit upwind. Head depth, draft positioning and batten profile and stiffness is being worked on to improve that area.

So in order here are the results from recent titles where either the sailmakers or leading users of their sails have performed. They are all the small head sails except where indicated:
Australian Nationals January 2009
Ashby
Brewin
Landenberger

Worlds January 2009
Ashby
Brewin
Landenberger

New South Wales State Titles March 2009
Brewin (BH)
Ashby
Brewin

Victorian State Titles
Ashby (BH)
Brewin (BH)
Brewin

Queensland State Titles April 2009
Brewin (BH)
Ashby
Landenberger

Cheers
John Dowling
AUS9

Re: A-class Sail review [Re: ACE11] #174845
04/14/09 03:56 PM
04/14/09 03:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 29
A
AUS Offline
newbie
AUS  Offline
newbie
A

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 29
Glenn indicated to me that the new big head sail that he used on the new boat was only to make up for the area they had to take out of the bottom due to the shortened distance from the traveller to the mast on the new boat. He said his standard profile is still the benchmark until it is proven otherwise and profiles would remain the same as the current 09 worlds sail. They have offered a new med sail(14) to fit between the standard and big boy models (I think he said it was the same sail used by Spithill at the worlds?) he said all three sails have the same profile and just a little extra depth added as you step up(seam depth not luff curve)

Re: A-class Sail review [Re: ACE11] #174881
04/15/09 02:02 AM
04/15/09 02:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 285
C
Catfan Offline
enthusiast
Catfan  Offline
enthusiast
C

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 285
John,

you wrote that Glenn sailed the latest event (Queensland State Titles) with a "standard" head main.
Does it mean that he sailed his old Flyer Mk2 instead of his new prototype?
Otherwise may you explain us how he made up for the area he had to take out of the bottom due to the shortened distance from the traveller to the mast on the new boat?
Thanks

Re: A-class Sail review [Re: Catfan] #174884
04/15/09 02:33 AM
04/15/09 02:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 170
Brisvegas
ACE11 Offline
member
ACE11  Offline
member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 170
Brisvegas
Sorry Catfan I need to clarify. What I listed above were the sails used in each of those events and they weren't necessarily the sailmakers themselves using those sails. Although in most cases they were. So for the Qld event Steve Brewin used his own sail to win. Brad Collett used a small head Asby for second and Andrew Landenberger used his own sail. I'll do a more detailed report on the event when I get a bit of time.
Glenn didn't sail at the event but Brad is a great sailor being a former Australian Title winner and 10th in the recent Worlds.
I can't comment about how Glenn has constructed his big head sail as I've not seen it. AUS made comments above about it.
I'll also give my thoughts on the trend to big head sails soon as I've now done 9 races with a couple of prototypes and sailed against one other.

Cheers
John Dowling
AUS9

Re: A-class Sail review [Re: ACE11] #175332
04/20/09 08:23 AM
04/20/09 08:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 75
Ljubljana, Slovenia
mayhem Offline OP
journeyman
mayhem  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 75
Ljubljana, Slovenia
I've also heard that if you have an old Bim200/Riba mast, all the latest sails will be a bit of a disappointment. Apart from the obvious hook vs ring, the slot is about 1mm smaller on the old Riba masts. Most importantly, however, is that the old Riba Masts are more flexible; therefore, new sails will be overly flat-- very bad for heavyweights like myself.

Now, if I change the Mast and Sail together, then a new Bim V1 starts looking more attractive.....

Re: A-class Sail review [Re: mayhem] #178340
05/15/09 12:38 PM
05/15/09 12:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
Smiths_Cat Offline
addict
Smiths_Cat  Offline
addict

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
Hi Mayhem,

You mean the slot of the sail track? Actually I have a Riba mast on my 2004 build Javelin 16 and I have extensive abraison on the sail (actually the sail gets cut where it touches the edges of the track) and the sail slides not very well. Did the older sails have a luff cable with lower diameter?

Cheers,

Klaus

Re: A-class Sail review [Re: Smiths_Cat] #178366
05/15/09 05:41 PM
05/15/09 05:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 170
Brisvegas
ACE11 Offline
member
ACE11  Offline
member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 170
Brisvegas
I've found that it is useful to sand the inside of the track on the carbon masts when first rigging them. Often there are small daggs inside the track from the mould and/or there is a sharp corner on the inside back edge all the way up. Tidying this up helps the sail to slide up more easily and reduces the cutting on the luff tape. I us wet and dry 200 grade paper wrapped around a pencil inside the track.

Cheers
John Dowling
AUS 9

Re: A-class Sail review [Re: ACE11] #178370
05/15/09 07:06 PM
05/15/09 07:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 170
Brisvegas
ACE11 Offline
member
ACE11  Offline
member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 170
Brisvegas
On the topic of sail profiles - the real test of the small head sails versus the new big heads will be the upcoming European titles in Austria. So far there are 87 entrants with most of the top runners from the last Worlds attending. Even some blasts from the past like Mitch Booth and Goran Marstrom! Rumour has it that Glenn Ashby has shipped a Geltek prototype from Australia and will use his big head sail. That is if the rigors of fatherhood don't get in the way. Steve Brewin has settled on a 1 metre head and is sailing very fast. Andrew Landenberger is staying with the small head which has proven very fast for him. It's a pity no US have nominated as it would be good to see some of the leaders from their current national event test themselves against the best.

For what it's worth, my own experience in testing an 1100mm head Brewin sail has shown some promise. I've now done 11 races with it - including seven against numbers 2, 3 and 10 in the last worlds. I've found it to be slower upwind but much faster downwind. We are working on the upwind speed with different batten tensions and stiffening the luff with carbon tape. I'm on the heavier end of the scale at 90kg, so the extra grunt up high in the sail seems to be working downwind.

Anyway, I think the concept has merit and wouldn't be surprised if we are all using big heads by this time next year - particularly if they are at the front of the fleet in the Europeans.

Cheers
John Dowling
AUS 9

Re: A-class Sail review [Re: ACE11] #183322
06/27/09 11:06 PM
06/27/09 11:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 342
Lake Murray, SC,USA
Cary Palmer Offline
enthusiast
Cary Palmer  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 342
Lake Murray, SC,USA
Any word on how the Big head Question turned out? I'm new on my 2000 Mk IV, but I've got a new sail planned for Christmas, Talked to Tony Arends so far about my new main,, Other than my weight and Mast specs, I wouldn't know whether to ask for a big head or not.
However it makes perfect sense so me, Better clear air away from the water, I would think That big head would make the most sense for everyone . . .


CARY
ACAT XJ Special
C&C 24

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