The question is whether to mount the halyard conventionally with a block attached to a hound or to rig a setup similar to the line bale rig in the photos in the site below. Does this really spread the load and help the unstayed portion of the mast hold up? I also have concerns about the furler getting things twisted up.
Any ideas/opinions are most welcome!
Thanks

http://www.acay.com.au/~bundy/layout.html
Scroll down to: Spinnaker Halyard Attachment

I'll take a crack at this. The loop of line that goes from luff track around to the luff track allows the block to remain orientated to the front of the mast. The benifit of this set up is the mast is free to rotate. If the block was rivited to the front of the mast or attached to a tang the pull of the hooter (in this case) would under rotate the mast. In puffy conditions the mast would be getting jerked around. Not a good thing. Now remember the pic you were looking at is a Tornado. Those guys look to remove as much weight and windage as possible. Imagine what would happen if the line that runs up to the padeye wasn't there. As you pulled the sail up that looped line would pulled down into the mast. The block would not be able to freely move along that looped line. Another variation of this is to have the haylard go up to a block at the padeye then down to the block on the looped line. The Tornados don't do this because it adds more line and weight at the top of the mast.

But what we're talking about here is hooters and hooters CAN produce greater loads when they are used close to the wind. I don't think I would use the pictured system for your boat. I would go for the Tang rivited on. You might what to install a positive rotation system to control the mast. I'm sure Rick has some ideas about it and if he dosen't respond here email him and ask.

Hope that helps some.
Have Fun
Mike

Rick is in Saipan putting on a seminar and won't be back until next week sometime -- don't know for sure when because the International Date Line has us all confused. And then he wants to leave right away for MidWinters East. So he probably won't be able to reply for a while.

John,

When I mentioned this system for the mast, I FORGOT, that you're rigging a Hooter!

I think you're right, it will NOT work well! I think it will get all twisted up, etc. Obviously you're going to furl the hooter, and it needs a more stable attchment, that won't rotate when furling.

Sorry, forgot about that!

See you tomorrow for my wifes baby shower at the TCD.

Todd

Mary-
Maybe you could just go out in the yard and see how Rick rigged up his Hooter-equipped boats (and or take a photo )?
Any idea when we'll be able to post attachments again?

Thanks!
Hope you are having a nice Spring there-

Kirt

On his Taipan 4.9, the halyard just runs through a little block hung on a hound. Sorry, I don't have a camera -- but it's too simple to need a picture anyway.

I'll call the server again today about the attachments. I keep forgetting about it.

Theres no universal, or turnbuckle at the top like on a furled jib?

Then how does it furl?

The top part of the furling system is a cute little, barrel-shaped swivel thing attached to the head of the Hooter, and the halyard is attached to the top of the swivel thing.

It's a Harken furling system. I looked in the 2003 Harken catalog, and it looks identical to #1900, gennaker furler, on page 153.

But I think Rick's is a smaller version of that, because the 1900 measurements look way too big.

cheek this out http://www.geocities.com/f16hpclass/Tech_genaker_mast_setups.html

O.K. So now I am confused. That setup looks like it will work well but I am still concerned about the twisting action of the furler. Are those Aussie genikers roller furling or flown like a chute? I would think that keeping the halyard fairly tight will prevent twisting. If so, the benefits of the "bale" should be great. Right?

I can see how it would be confusing. You are asking about a Hooter, and that website is referring to a genaker (gennaker), and it defines "genaker" as being an asymmetrical spinnaker, which is not rollerfurling.

I talked to Rick by telephone, and he doesn't understand what you mean by "twisting." He said nothing ever gets twisted up top.

He has used both asymmetrical spinnaker and Hooter on his Taipan 4.9, and for both of them the halyard runs through the same little turning block attached to a hound on the mast. The only difference with the Hooter is that it has the roller-furling system attached to it.

It furls whether the halyard is tight or loose but furls a little easier if the halyard is tight. The halyard, of course, is tightened or loosened depending upon the point of sail and wind conditions.

You would have to explain what you mean about twisting. I think the idea of a furling system is for the furler to do the twisting so nothing else twists.

Maybe you guys are talking about something much more high-tech and complicated. Or maybe you are making it more complicated than it is. We tend to be kind of simplistic.

On the website posted by taipan029, the halyard is attached by way of strong, low-stretch line forming a bale and allowing the mast to rotate with no influence from the halyard tension. No hound is used. The twisting I was referring to is regarding the lines used in that system. Use of a hound securely holds the halyard and allows the furler to work properly. The bad part as I understand it is that it tries to rotate the mast and some type of forced rotation device is needed. I'm sure I'm not explaining myself very well and may well be overcomplicating things. Thanks very much for your help and patience.

Well, let me see if I understand the question, so I can ask somebody.

You are going to use a Hooter, right? And you don't want to use a hound for the halyard block on the mast because you are concerned that the mast will not rotate properly? And so you were thinking about using a line bail on the mast instead to allow the mast to rotate without requiring positive rotation, but you think the line thing will get twisted if you are using a roller-furling headsail? If that is the case, I will ask Dave Calvert on Monday (it's just a local call for me), and get back to you.

However, since your primary concern seems to be about the problem of mast rotation when using a Hooter, it would be helpful to know what kind of boat you have and whether or not it has a boom. I couldn't find your boat type in your posts.

You have my question exactly right. I have a Prindle 19 (see my signature). Thanks again for your support!

Sorry, I never look at signatures. Tunnel vision, I guess.

Okay, I just talked to Dave Calvert, of Calvert Sails. He has made Hooters for Prindle 19's, and he definitely recommends using a fixed hound as opposed to the rope bail.

He said:

1. There has been no problem with mast rotation one way or the other, using a fixed hound.

2. There should be no structural problem with the mast if the Hooter halyard hound is not more than 2-3 feet above the jib hound.

3. A fixed hound is preferable when using a Hooter because of the increased stress loads.

4. If you used a rope bail as used by some people for asymmetrical spinnakers, the rope bail would definitely get twisted.

Many thanks for all of your help and please thank Mr. Calvert for his advice as well. Your forum and website are absolute tops for catsailors so far as I'm concerned and I'll advise any sailors who don't know of it to make it a favorite (if there are any!) for a terrific source of information about the sport.
Thanks again.

If I understand the question right, one of the questions was how to prevent hooter halyard twisting near the hound.....

On my Stiletto 27's Hooter set up, one of the previous owners welded a piece of 1/4 inch x 4 inch stainless rod to the top of the upper swivel at a 90 degree angle. This piece of rod is covered by sliding a piece of hose over it to protect the mast and simply acts as a stop so the top of the swivel can not rotate as the bottom does.

This approach is simple very effective and allows the whole Hooter assembly to be hoisted or dropped, as simply as a non-furled system.

Just a thought.