hmmmfff...I was actually kind of hopeful that we would have a multichallenger event - so much for that idea. I guess SNG has finally given up on trying to advertise that they wanted a multi challenger event.
That is going to be one REALLY nerve wracking series of three races with really expensive monster multihulls. I can only hope that SNG doesn't win so we don't end up here again or end up with Ernie-vision in the future.
Jake Kohl
Re: Bring on the Giant multihulls - booyah!
[Re: Jake]
#175830 04/23/0909:18 AM04/23/0909:18 AM
They've stated all along that they wanted a FAIR multi-challenger race on mono's. Problem is, Ernie wanted an UNFAIR multi-challenger race where the rules are rigged in his favor.
Re: Bring on the Giant multihulls - booyah!
[Re: ThunderMuffin]
#175839 04/23/0910:03 AM04/23/0910:03 AM
why would GGYC and BMW ORACLE now want a monohull race?
They've always wanted a multi-challenger event...just not under lopsided rules put up by SNG (the yacht club that represents Alinghi)where they control the management of the challenger series (and get to compete in it), the management of the cup matches, the selection the arbitration committee, the selection of the race committee, and completely unfettered ability to disqualify a competitor.
The challenger of record has equal rights in determining the protocol of the match but CNEV (spain) was a fabricated "yacht club" that SNG / Alinghi urged and who filed the first challenge. CNEV just wanted the event to return to Spain ($) and basically either didn't care to, or as part of the deal, let SNG have their way with the protocal.
Enter GGYC (BMW/Oracle); arguing that the CNEV challenge was illegal because they weren't a bonified yacht club sought to become challenger of record because they wanted to fight for a fair protocal - one that a challenger might have a chance to win under. The legal argument that was fought was over one technicality that CNEV clearly failed to meet about "having for it's annual regatta" when CNEV had never had a regatta....they also didn't have any members, no boats, etc. There were other ways that CNEV didn't meet the requisite items in the deed, but this was the easiest and cleanest to argue legally.
The real intent of the Deed was for a bonified challenger, one with stake holders and experience would come forth to challenge for the cup and they would negotiate terms for the event on equal footing. The challenger should have incentive to argue on behalf of themselves - which CNEV did not have and did not do.
When GGYC / BMW Oracle filed their challenge with SNG/Alinghi, as per the deed, they had to stipulate what kind of yacht they want to challenge under in simple terms that are specified in the deed. Long before the court cases started, they filed a challenge after CNEV's and defined a 90'x90' sloop rigged boat and a draft as specified in the deed. They explained to SNG that they felt CNEV's challenge was not valid but they would drop their case if SNG modified the protocal and gave them a list of 10 concerns with the protocal that was drafted.
They challenge boat was defined so to avoid the craziness that we saw in the 80's when Dennis Conner sailed against New Zealand in the only other DoG match the cup has ever seen. New Zealand specified a boat of 90' and a particular beam (30' or something?) but never thought that the Americans would show up with a 60' x 30' catamaran against their monster monohull...so we started this round with a challenge that could clearly be a multihull.
The other issue was that the deed specifies that the challenger of record specifies the boat and the time of the event, the defender specifies the place. The timing of the event cannot be within 10 months of the challenge. Sooo, seeking to speed things along and leverage a quick resolution, GGYC filed their challenge with a 10 month window...that's why they built their tri-maran in such a rush - they had to be ready if SNG was to be ready and I presume they hoped that a short time to develop a boat of this magnitude may give them a technical edge (my assumption here). The short lead time would also certainly speed the resolution of this thing so we could get back to a multiple challenger series quickly before most teams ran out of sponsorship money...I guess you can pick your explanation that fits your opinion better! They really did build that thing in an astonishingly short time period.
The courts finally ruled that CNEV was not a valid challenger as specified in the deed and that Alinghi was wrong by "accepting" the challenge. So GGYC/BMW-Oracle are now the challenger of record and SNG has the option to either deal with them an negotiate a multi-challenger (or any other kind of series) or meet them on the water under the very simple three race series that the Deed specifies if the challenger and defender are unable to agree on the terms of the match.
Jake Kohl
Re: Bring on the Giant multihulls - booyah!
[Re: Jake]
#175867 04/23/0912:40 PM04/23/0912:40 PM
I will get excited when I see another mulithull being built... even then... I probably should wait until they get sails, a mast, and actually sail it.
This has got to be the biggest shaggy dog story in sailing. for cat sailors... this particular story will have a terrible ending with them going back to monohulls in the future.
crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Bring on the Giant multihulls - booyah!
[Re: Jake]
#175868 04/23/0912:41 PM04/23/0912:41 PM
Thanks Jake. That's the first time I remember reading ANYONE else having the same take on the GGYC challenge that I did when I first read it (back when it was initially submitted).
It seemed obvious to me then that GGYC did NOT want a multihull event. Why? Because they gave a timeline (something like 30 or 60 days) for the Swiss to sit down to come up with a different arrangement than the DoG boats.
When it became obvious that the Swiss wouldn't back down, GGYC built a DoG boat.
I was more amazed when, after finally prevailing in court a few weeks ago, GGYC opened the dialog in hopes of switching away from the DoG match. That may have been a long-term PR ploy more than anything else, I suppose. DC is still getting bad press for sending that cat up against the Kiwis. At least this way, GGYC can look back and say, "Hey, we tried to give them outs..."
Mark, I don't see how this hurts cat sailors. It will give multis a good media stint, then they go back to monos. If the multis weren't used at all, how would that be better for us???
Mike
Re: Bring on the Giant multihulls - booyah!
[Re: brucat]
#176008 04/24/0901:05 PM04/24/0901:05 PM
You know what opinions are like...everyone's got one!
I don't see how this will hurt multihull sailors either - it will probably be good in the long run. The exposure that the monster tri has already given us is good...everyone generally considers it "the ultimate speed machine" and is in awe of it (how could you not be!). There have been plenty of 90' monohulls - but no multihull (to my knowledge) has ever been built this large with closed course racing in mind.
On the other hand, once this is over (and hopefully we'll see teams that are more willing to negotiate agreeable events in the future), I'm sure it will be back to the usually tightly controlled monohull racing with small (and expensive) technical gains made inside the rules. I do think it would be exciting to see an open box rule America's Cup for a series of multihulls similar to a scaled up A-cat rule (that would permit tris or cats) where the rules literally fit on one page. THAT would be neat to see what comes out of it. Keep the cost low by limiting length to 30 or 40' but let the designers and sailors have some fun learning how to go fast....really fast.
Jake Kohl
Re: Bring on the Giant multihulls - booyah!
[Re: Jake]
#176043 04/24/0905:49 PM04/24/0905:49 PM
...There have been plenty of 90' monohulls - but no multihull (to my knowledge) has ever been built this large with closed course racing in mind.
All cats in The Race were longer than 90 ft. Afterwards Orange II, Geronimo and Banque Populaire were built larger than 90 ft. BMW/Oracle is unique in having been built with closed course racing in mind (as you wrote) and for having the largest sail area of any multihull to date - including the 135 ft Banque Populaire.
Luiz
Re: Bring on the Giant multihulls - booyah!
[Re: Luiz]
#176064 04/25/0905:19 AM04/25/0905:19 AM
GGYC just filed against SNG for contempt of court on the basis that the date SNG said they would sail is outside the court mandated date by two months.