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Re: alternate brummel [Re: PTP] #176245
04/27/09 01:38 PM
04/27/09 01:38 PM
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mikekrantz Offline
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"A regular eye splice can work itself loose if the line is repeatedly loaded and unloaded if it hasn't been whipped/lock stitched - which opens another can of worms..."

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: alternate brummel [Re: mikekrantz] #176246
04/27/09 01:49 PM
04/27/09 01:49 PM
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Michigan
PTP Offline
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Originally Posted by mikekrantz
"A regular eye splice can work itself loose if the line is repeatedly loaded and unloaded if it hasn't been whipped/lock stitched - which opens another can of worms..."


I read that, but like I said... I have had 12 long tuck eye splices on trap lines for over 2 years and none of them have ever come loose. This would be the ideal situation for them to loosen. Oh, and none of them were lock stitched

Last edited by PTP; 04/27/09 01:49 PM.
Re: alternate brummel [Re: PTP] #176247
04/27/09 02:12 PM
04/27/09 02:12 PM
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mikekrantz Offline
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YMMV

Re: alternate brummel [Re: mikekrantz] #176248
04/27/09 02:17 PM
04/27/09 02:17 PM
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Gulf Coast
tami Offline OP
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Mike, I was hoping for your rationale regarding any differential between a brummel-w/o-bury and a knot. Is there any? What I said, was:

"Mike: I'm rolling with the brummel, but to be honest, I can't see a helluva lot of difference between it and a knot. Comments?"

I'm thinking that w/o the bury, I might as well have just tied a knot in the line (which is how my covered (I think it's Staset) jibsheet is done, not by me) and since the line strength prolly exceeds the loading I'm ok. Or not. Which is why I ask.

Re: alternate brummel [Re: mikekrantz] #176249
04/27/09 02:22 PM
04/27/09 02:22 PM
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Michigan
PTP Offline
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Originally Posted by mikekrantz
YMMV

?
urban dictionary - figured it out. your mileage may vary


Tami,
I think another way to look at it is if the loads are less than 50% of the line strength then barring other concerns (like the bulk of a knot) then there is no reason why you couldn't use a knot. With all the high tech lines, the chances of anyone exceeding the breaking strength is unlikely. It isn't "high tech" but the strength of 5/16 staset is 3500. I don't know exactly what the loads are on a jib on a F27, but doubt it exceeds 1000lbs. Even 7/64 amsteel has a 1200lb breaking strength. So outside of downhaul, stays then I think you are fine- even on a tri.

Last edited by PTP; 04/27/09 02:25 PM.
Re: alternate brummel [Re: PTP] #176250
04/27/09 02:50 PM
04/27/09 02:50 PM
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Gulf Coast
tami Offline OP
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PTP, you have elaborated the reason why I'm using the "brummel solution" (sounds kewl, don't it.) to having shackles. I'm pretty sure the line's strength isn't being exceeded.

I'm just curious as to whether there is a difference in the 'brummel solution' as I've outlined it and actually tying a knot.

Hell, I'm still not absolutely clear as to exactly why tying a knot reduces line strength in and of itself, but I take the experts' words for it. I mean, I'm not arguing that, I'm trying to understand why it is. It seems to me that tying a knot is just another form of braiding, unless the knot itself slips. I'm not really doing a good job of conveying the concept I have in mind...

Re: alternate brummel [Re: tami] #176253
04/27/09 02:58 PM
04/27/09 02:58 PM
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Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Tami, on the knot breaking the line thing, the reason I have been told (but not witnessed, yet) is that at some point, the line crosses over itself, forming what ever knot you have tied. When an extreme load is put on the line, the knot tightens to the point that the bent part, that crosses over, will cut into the line, and break it there, it adds a concentrated side load the line was not designed to handle, vs. a straight pull type load.


Blade F16
#777
Re: alternate brummel [Re: tami] #176254
04/27/09 03:03 PM
04/27/09 03:03 PM

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andrewscott
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The advantages are clear...

you get to say "brummel solutiom" and "High Modulious Rope"... and sound cool like fonzie!

Re: alternate brummel [Re: Timbo] #176259
04/27/09 03:25 PM
04/27/09 03:25 PM
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Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
tami Offline OP
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Ach, sooo...

Really, I swear, I didn't fail physics...

Re: alternate brummel [Re: tami] #176265
04/27/09 03:51 PM
04/27/09 03:51 PM
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mikekrantz Offline
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There are two problems with knots. The first is that as the knot tightens, it tends to cut itself in half. A bowline is a prime example - the small loop section of the knot slices through itself.

The other issue with knots is the loading of the braid. The outer part of the curve will take up most of the load, while the inner part of the radius will be "relaxed". This results in a greatly reduced breaking strength because you are really only using 1/2 the line to take up the load.

I really need to get a video camera, film it on the punisher, and place it on you-tube...

Re: alternate brummel [Re: mikekrantz] #176266
04/27/09 03:56 PM
04/27/09 03:56 PM

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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by mikekrantz
I really need to get a video camera, film it on the punisher, and place it on you-tube...


Get a high speed camera so we can see every 1000000th frame of it!... I bet lots of things would look cool exploding on it


Last edited by andrewscott; 04/27/09 03:57 PM.
Re: alternate brummel [Re: ] #176275
04/27/09 05:39 PM
04/27/09 05:39 PM
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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I wonder if they'll let me borrow one of our 200 fps event triggered recording systems for that?


Jake Kohl
Re: alternate brummel [Re: Jake] #176329
04/28/09 08:28 AM
04/28/09 08:28 AM
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Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
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Bring it down. We'll fix a rummie and break some stuff.

Re: alternate brummel [Re: mikekrantz] #176367
04/28/09 04:35 PM
04/28/09 04:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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May do that if only there were time for a side trip, I'm heading to Birmingham to visit a client and could have taken one to demo down there (and errrr....make a stop on the way back!).


Jake Kohl
Re: alternate brummel [Re: Jake] #176369
04/28/09 04:44 PM
04/28/09 04:44 PM

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andrewscott
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Lets see how much force is needed to pull apart a 200 fps event triggered recording systems

Re: alternate brummel [Re: ] #176381
04/28/09 09:31 PM
04/28/09 09:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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nooooooooo....I don't sell enough of those for my commission to cover THAT.


Jake Kohl
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