Last night, during beer can races, I was crewing on a 32' monomaran. We were on a reaching leg just to leeward and behind another boat. The skipper of the boat I was on started to come up to try to get an inside overlap on the other boat as we approached the next mark. As we came up we ran over a line that was dragging behind the boat that was above us. Did the other boat "foul us" for for failing to yield right of way to a leeward boat? I posed this question around the bar following the race and the concessus was no, no foul occured. OK...I accept that, now....what if that boat was rounding a mark, and the line trailing behind them hit the mark, did that boat hit the mark and have to do a turn? If yes, what is the difference between the two scenarios????

Technically, there was contact, so someone broke a rule. A piece of equipment, even when not in normal position, is always part of a boat.

The sticky part is the question of where the boats were (to determine overlap). If your hull or equipment (in normal position) did not overlap his hull or equipment (in normal position), then you were clear astern and were not the ROW boat. See the RRS definitions.

The next place to go is, you hit part of the other boat when you were clear astern. Technically, you broke a rule, and were not right-of-way. However, since it might be argued that this was no fault of your own (he was dragging the line), you would not be penalized.

Having said that, I personally can't see myself ever going to the room over it, or even calling for a circle. Unless it actually affected my sailing ability (stuck rudder, etc.)...

Working through the logic above, you can see that if the line hits the mark, that is definitely a foul.

BTW, I don't know if I'm an "expert." I'm just a PRO and not a judge, but this makes sense to me...

Mike

I agree that this is not something worth a trip to the room or circles over, and no such claims were made. Nothing was said between the boats regarding this on the water or at the bar. I just thought it brought up an interesting question. To further your comment about us being clear behind an there fore no overlap exisits, we could be seen as at fault...wouldn't that scenario give an incentive to a boat to intentional drag a line behind them to cause this situation if they did want to push it and go to a protest over this type of contact? Not something I would ever do, just playing "devil's advocate".

ok, I'll play too.

what if the boat dragging the rope just over took you and was therefore a boat overtaking to winward and must keep clear of the leeward boat. does the the rope count as far as maintaining the overlap and can the leeward boat luff the winward boat? if contact was made (with the rope) i'd think the windward boat would be in the wrong? right?

Technically, yes. The equipment and crew count in terms of making contact.

Again, correct. Overlap is defined in terms of hull and equipment in normal position. I think there is a good argument that a line trailing in the water is not "in normal position".

Yes and no. RRS 14 requires that all boats avoid contact if reasonably possible. I think there is a good argument that the astern boat could not reasonably avoid contact if the line were submerged and not visible. "No fault of your own" is not part of the rules.

Technically, I think the astern boat did not keep clear (under RRS 12) as there was contact (although it could be argued that the ahead boat did not need to take avoiding action), but I doubt most protest committees would penalize her.


I agree with this analysis.

Intentionally dragging a line in an attempt to "draw a foul" is skirting the boundary of "fair play" and may be considered a breach of RRS 2.

Regards,
Eric

Overlap is defined by the imaginary lines off the bow and stern of the boat...so dragging something will not affect overlap.

Dude, you should have grabbed the line, tied anything like a bucket or anchor to it, and thrown it back in!

But I don't think a trailing line is considered part of the boat or sails.

Jake,

Are you willing to argue with a judge???

SimonP,

Your protest would be DISALLOWED/REJECTED ... because it could never happen .... there is NEVER a ROPE on a boat, it's a LINE!!!! (HaHaHa...)

Hows that fer' SeaLawyerin'......

HarryMurphey

Why? Do you have a different definition that that provided within the RRS? Ok, so maybe not bow and stern, but sailing equipment in a normal position (spin pole, etc.). The line in the water is definitely not a equipment in the normal position.

Actually, there is a rope on a boat - the "bell rope". I'd think, however, that a boat might be in trouble if her bell rope were dragging in the water.

Regards,
Eric

I agree with Timbo. Should have tied your sea-anchor to that trailing line and tossed it back in.

Eric,

I stand corrected .... but I was taught that, that was the Bell's "Lanyard" when I was a youngster.

Now where should I mount that ship's bell .....

Harry

Thanks Eric. I think your post covers all the devil's advocate issues. If a boat intentionally throws a line overboard, there are rules to deal with that.

I think that I covered all the other posts in my initial message (overlap definition, no fault of your own, etc.).

Mike