| TYBEE, and SCHRS #177880 05/11/09 11:18 PM 05/11/09 11:18 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider OP
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | Wow.. the earth moved under the feet of US Sailors today.
Not only did the Tybee get scored on handicap and in one design class... (My personal favorite old saw)
BUT... they are using SCHRS measurement ratings and not portsmouth
Woo woo!!
Whoever made these calls... Thank you!
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#177884 05/12/09 01:32 AM 05/12/09 01:32 AM | Scarecrow
Unregistered
| Scarecrow
Unregistered | What is interesting is the very obvious split in the corrected time results. Typically this occurs if either the ratings are up the creek or the weather gave one class a huge advantage.
So the question is, if this was F18 prefered conditions (in comparison to N20) when will the N20 be clearly advantaged? | | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: ]
#177887 05/12/09 02:29 AM 05/12/09 02:29 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | What is interesting is the very obvious split in the corrected time results. Typically this occurs if either the ratings are up the creek or the weather gave one class a huge advantage.
So the question is, if this was F18 prefered conditions (in comparison to N20) when will the N20 be clearly advantaged? A third option, is that those sailing the F18's are better sailors and made better decisions regarding route...... Looking at the video from yesterday(light winds), the N20's SHOULD have romped it as they could get on the wire as they have more power?
Last edited by scooby_simon; 05/12/09 02:46 AM.
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: ]
#177894 05/12/09 05:12 AM 05/12/09 05:12 AM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525 | There has been some mention of heavy weather, on the nose, later in the week.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: scooby_simon]
#177895 05/12/09 05:15 AM 05/12/09 05:15 AM | Scarecrow
Unregistered
| Scarecrow
Unregistered | But then their kites may not be able to be carried to the same height. Meaning you end up with nacras 2 sail reaching Vs F18s 3 sail double trapping. This was definately happening for some of the race. Its hard to believe (although possible) that all bar 1 F18 crew is better than all the Nacra 20 crews. I actually think what we are seeing is evidence the N20 needs a new sail plan it if wants to stay dominant in this style of racing. Passage races are rarely straight upwind or down so the sails need to be able to cope with other options. | | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: pgp]
#177897 05/12/09 05:16 AM 05/12/09 05:16 AM | Scarecrow
Unregistered
| Scarecrow
Unregistered | There has been some mention of heavy weather, on the nose, later in the week. But then the F18's have smaller rigs and similar righting moment. What would you choose.
Last edited by Scarecrow; 05/12/09 05:16 AM.
| | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: ]
#177898 05/12/09 05:37 AM 05/12/09 05:37 AM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525 | There has been some mention of heavy weather, on the nose, later in the week. But then the F18's have smaller rigs and similar righting moment. What would you choose. F16! Time will tell but the I've always heard the 20 is a better open water boat. Longer, fuller bows and all that. With all respect to the guys sailing the 20s (I wouldn't even attempt this race), the 18s have more talent on the water. The only thing I'm certain of: catamaran sailing is marketable.
Last edited by pgp; 05/12/09 05:43 AM.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: ]
#177900 05/12/09 06:01 AM 05/12/09 06:01 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA | There is a lot of racing left, let's give it a couple of days. And yes there is a lot of talent in the F18 fleet.
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: pgp]
#177901 05/12/09 06:13 AM 05/12/09 06:13 AM |
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 712 mikekrantz
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712 | It was a very tight reach starting with about 5 knots of breeze building to 15+ over the course of the day. The F18's were able to set their spins early in the light air and hold their line, whereas it was too tight for the N20's. Then once the breeze came on, the F18's were again able to hold their lines while the N20's set their spins, drove down to the beach, drop, reach back up and reset.
The N20 that won line honors (Royal Yellow) set themselves up high early on, and it paid off.
We took the low road and passed 15 boats in the last 40 miles.
The Infusion was a machine in those conditions. We were both chickenlined in at the back beam reaching at 20knots. We would blast through a 4' wave up to the beam, drop down to 15 knots, shake it off, and take off again. | | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: ]
#177902 05/12/09 06:24 AM 05/12/09 06:24 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | But then their kites may not be able to be carried to the same height. Meaning you end up with nacras 2 sail reaching Vs F18s 3 sail double trapping. This was definately happening for some of the race. Its hard to believe (although possible) that all bar 1 F18 crew is better than all the Nacra 20 crews. I actually think what we are seeing is evidence the N20 needs a new sail plan it if wants to stay dominant in this style of racing. Passage races are rarely straight upwind or down so the sails need to be able to cope with other options. So are you saying the N20 kites are cut too full and so cannot be carried high enough? Yes the F18's have less sail and similar RM so will be able to carry their kites higher is the wind gets to the critical band; however, I was very surprised in the footage I saw that the F18's were twin wiring with the kite up and the 20's were just sitting in with the kite in the sock, why did the 20's not pop the kite, drop the halyard 18 inches (flattens most kites except really bad ones) and continue the fight, maybe with dumping some traveller?
Last edited by scooby_simon; 05/12/09 06:27 AM.
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: mikekrantz]
#177903 05/12/09 06:30 AM 05/12/09 06:30 AM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 5,525 | . . . We were both chickenlined in at the back beam reaching at 20knots. We would blast through a 4' wave up to the beam, drop down to 15 knots, shake it off, and take off again. Kudos!
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: scooby_simon]
#177905 05/12/09 06:44 AM 05/12/09 06:44 AM |
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 887 Crofton, MD Chris9
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887 Crofton, MD | drop the halyard 18 inches (flattens most kites except really bad ones) What are you doin to me man? You're given away the code. I haven't tried 18" in a while, but certainly some easing of luff tension is good while trying to go high. | | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: Chris9]
#177921 05/12/09 08:38 AM 05/12/09 08:38 AM | andrewscott
Unregistered
| andrewscott
Unregistered | drop the halyard 18 inches (flattens most kites except really bad ones) What are you doin to me man? You're given away the code. I haven't tried 18" in a while, but certainly some easing of luff tension is good while trying to go high. wow... when i try to point higher (with the spin out) i always make sure the halyard is all the way up, and sheet in as hard as possible... please explain how dropping the halyard helps you point higher. thanks - | | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: ]
#177923 05/12/09 08:45 AM 05/12/09 08:45 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA | It flattens the entry to sail. It does allow you to carry it higher but it also moves the forward vector further aft (am I saying that right?) giving more healing moment with less forward speed. The trick is knowing when to pull the plug, just because you can carry it doesn't always mean you're going faster. As with anything sailing it just depends.
It's really easy to see. Go out on on a light air day sail as high you can with a full hoist then drop halyard the change really jumps right out at you.
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: David Ingram]
#177925 05/12/09 08:58 AM 05/12/09 08:58 AM | andrewscott
Unregistered
| andrewscott
Unregistered | Thanks David. I will try it next sail...
Will you be around to help me right my cat? (kidding) | | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: scooby_simon]
#177926 05/12/09 09:06 AM 05/12/09 09:06 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 833 St. Louis, MO, Mike Hill
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833 St. Louis, MO, | So are you saying the N20 kites are cut too full and so cannot be carried high enough?
Yes the F18's have less sail and similar RM so will be able to carry their kites higher is the wind gets to the critical band; however, I was very surprised in the footage I saw that the F18's were twin wiring with the kite up and the 20's were just sitting in with the kite in the sock, why did the 20's not pop the kite, drop the halyard 18 inches (flattens most kites except really bad ones) and continue the fight, maybe with dumping some traveller?
I'll tell you why. In those conditions you pop the kite on the N20 and you hold it for a minute. The littlest puff comes through and suddenly you have to turn 50 degrees downwind to keep from flipping dragging you into shore where you are just going to have to drop it immediately to come back up. So instead you reach high and fast gaining height without any loss in speed. Then when you are high enough you pop the chute and try to hold it high as long as you can. Rinse and repeat. That's what Steve did and he won the leg. This was definitely F18 condition with the high reaching. Heavy air upwind the F18's will kill also. The N20 comes alive in the 8-12knots dead down wind condition. If and when they get that you will see the opposite result of what they had yesterday with all the N20's killing the F18's.
Mike Hill N20 #1005
| | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: Mike Hill]
#177927 05/12/09 09:08 AM 05/12/09 09:08 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA | Exactly! There is so much racing left.
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: Chris9]
#177933 05/12/09 09:53 AM 05/12/09 09:53 AM | andrewscott
Unregistered
| andrewscott
Unregistered | Interesting info. Thanks for the data
i will have to try this out. I have let off on the tack line in light air before, but not to point higher... | | | Re: TYBEE, and SCHRS
[Re: scooby_simon]
#177950 05/12/09 12:47 PM 05/12/09 12:47 PM |
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 297 rexdenton
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 297 | We had almost the same thing happen on the last day of the Sakonnet 100 last year. All of the F18's and I-20's finished within about 7 minutes of each other. In a fresh breeze, the boats are pretty equal, because of the reaching speed with the F18 chute up and dbl traps.
Last edited by rexdenton; 05/12/09 12:50 PM.
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