<****. I can't speak for the F-18s, they were probably in giant slayer mode racing us as hard as they could to try to prove a point.I ignored them from a competitive standpoint but did try to use them for reference. The conditions this year made us like apples and oranges.It could be that way anytime but this was a test.
Todd

My bad, I guess I raced against you and didn't know it. That year I didn't race the HTs boat for boat either. To me racing another boat is changing your settings and tactics to get in front of or stay in front of a boat. We did not do that with the F18s or 18hts. Looking at one and saying " Damn they can reach high with that kite" is not racing them.
I think you should talk to Chuck and try to get the F-16s in. It would be especially nice to see some of the rarely sail smack talkers do it. The F-16s are plenty fast and you build the blades well enough, that I think they'd do fine.
Todd

"Pete- you'd f-ing die on an F16 if it got rough. If I were the organizers I wouldn't allow a single hand boat, and you'll get pounded to death with two people on a short platform."

Disclaimer; I've never done the Tybee and won't (I'm past the age to take that abuse for multiple days). However, I do remember the famed Worrell 1000, twice as long, was run with Hobie 16s early on. Were those sailors supermen or have we become wimpy over the years?

those guys were epic.

They swapped out a guy, so the teams were 3 men and there is a little bit of speed difference and energy output between a hobie 16 and a nacra 20, to say the least.

Unless it's a reach and it's blowing 25 then it's even

GT300 might be an option for F16's...they allow ARC22 & Tornado.
There is also a "short" option to run just the weekend days and I think that is open to any beachcat.

And the rest of the madcatter story... 50 Hobie 16's (outstanding!)
1 Hobie 20
1 FX1
7 Tigers

The Madcatter has an international rep for a great party, demonstrated record of hospitality...
Held on the most popular weekend of the year to run a regatta,
the best in one design hobie racing etc etc etc.

bottom line at madcatter
The North East Hobie 17 fleet ... gone.
The mid atlantic Hobie 18 fleet ... gone.
East Coast Hobie 20 fleet ... gone.
Hobie Tiger fleet ... hanging in there

Question?
What's missing?

Why do I bust your balls time and time again?
Because I have watched the decline for 20 years and I refuse to accept the status quo.

All you say is... we hate handicap... we love one design... So, more one design racing is the solution.

When faced with the attendance facts... not just at madcatter but at all of the big regattas, I would say that this approach year after year is insane!

I argue that the problem is no competition in small fleets...Either one design or open class. No amount of great party will solve this fundamental problem. I assert that a small fleet does not deliver the goods because you do not have much competition and the racing does not give people what they are looking for. So... we are loosing the casual racers .... the guys who do one or two regattas a year on old boats with new crews. These guys used to go to the big events.

Sure... the hard core guys don't want to compromise their racing experience and tolerate handicap racing... I got it.. I understand it. They are the ones running the show,
You are speaking for them... great! But, If we don't change course now and modify the structure of the racing... we will crater a bunch of fleets and loose sailors who by their very nature of choosing to stay in a small class are not likely to be hard core OD racers.

I think the game is about keeping them racing.

I will say it again... The Europeans don't seem to worry about handicap detracting from their racing.... they seem to just go racing in big starts with like boats grouped together, Then they score it out on handicap and OD, elapsed, masters, etc etc. The EU guys keep the races large (handicap) so that you can always be racing somebody... you don't get marginalized into a 5 boat fleet which craters in short order when people loose interest

The more small fleets you have... the more last place finishers you have and little chance to escape the bottom.

That's my reasoning and I am sticking to it.

My interest is not pure competition. 1) I think the more boats on the beach, the more public interest. If you're having a party, why not a big one? 2)Adventure. It's not like I'm gonna win the thing, but, I would like to come to the party.

It's a year away, I'll try and do some distance racing and see if I have the stamina. It sounds like an awfully big if.

Out of curiosity, what is the easiest leg?

This being my first time in the race, I wouldn't try to say a certain leg as a whole is easier than another.. to us, each leg had its own obstacles.

The first leg to Miami made us very nervous much of the way constantly trying to avoid reefs.

Then there was the mentally and physically exhausting Cocoa Beach leg that endured late into the night.

And of course, the Jacksonville Jetty on the way to Fernadina seems to be considered the "nastiest obstacle in the whole race."

But obviously, the easiest legs for us were the ones where the wind blew steadily from start to finish. The conditions of the day determine the difficulty of the leg. Honestly the last leg to Tybee was the least eventful for my crew and I.

Mark,

From where I sit, your "solution" was actually the root cause of the problem. I too watched it happen, and obviously have a very different opinion. It's no less valid than yours, but I don't jump on every regatta report thread for a handicap race and tell everyone to start sailing one-design.

Stop hijacking all the threads on the board with this nonsense.

Mike

Pete if you are seriously considering this, you should try to do the Miami To Key Largo race. Its an awesome race and its somewhat close to what the first leg is, but just in reverse.

If you do it next year let me know I wouldnt mind heading down that way.

That's an idea! I'll keep it in mind.

In my confused and exhausted state I'm trying to wrap my head around this to see what the problem is.

First, I think this was the closest N20 racing I've seen since the 2001 Worrell 1000! Congratulations to Steve and Jay on the win! I don't think Chuck is ever going to "exclude" any five of the same class boats who come with a check for entry, within reason of course. If he used the term "phase out" it is not a proper statement though.

He does show some foresight in thinking F18s are the "future." It is one of the most popular classes in the world now, mono or multi. He wants to grow his race and the best way to do that is to get one of the fastest growing fleets in the world to participate. Who can fault him for this? Yes, this year is the first year that F18s have shown up with any force, and the 20 was still the largest fleet. I don't see this as Chuck turning his back on the 20s. Congratulations to Mischa and Eduard on the F18 win!

With regard to the corrected time placings, I held my thanks for the organizers, race committee, Carrie, our sailing partners, TVS, Robbob and Mariooo, and the sailors for making the event the success it was this year during the class prizegiving because I thought the corrected time prizegiving would be more important. However, JW just whizzed through the corrected time places at the end, so I didn't get to give my speech. During the prizegiving, without a doubt more focus was given to the individual classes over the overall corrected. This was definately done on purpose to give more importance to the individual classes over the corrected.

The conditions didn't matter much to us. We were always guaging off of any boat around us, making adjustments, and trying to pass every boat on the course. We were racing everyone, working on placement on the course, leverage and boatspeed. No matter what cat we would have been on, our mindset would have been the same.

I have a bit of a unique position here, as I've competed in this race on both the N20 and the Tiger. I REALLY enjoy sailing both platforms in this race. Of course, there is enough room for both classes to participate in the Tybee.

I did want to win, but what is also important is the adventure and comraderie of this race. There was plenty of adventure, and I consider everyone at the event a friend, and I was glad to see you all. I only wish we had a layday to party it up a bit. I had an incredible amount of fun on and off the water!

I especially want to congratulate all of the first-timers who did the race. No matter what boat you were on, I'm sure you're hooked and are the future of races like this. I have known most of you for quite a while now, and I was proud to go up the coast with you. See you next year!

Pete,

I think the following would be good "appetizers" to see if you think (1) you or (2) your crew would be suited for the T-500.

Not necessarily in this order, but all right here in ole' FLA to reduce logistics costs:

Macho Man (day 2 optional) - Tampa -Always seemed to have a wide variety of conditions, from no wind to blast reaching. Also seemed to have a good pounding up the cost in chop. Day 2 isn't nearly as tough, but gives you a good idea of what kind of condition (fatigue, etc.) you'd face after a big day on the water.

Miami Key-Largo - Usually benign or pleasant weather conditions, but can be an off-water logistical nightmare. Good training for "Keys water" sailing (reefs/sandbars) and for getting your ground crew vetted.

Steeplechase- Key Largo- Probably best "T-500 Prep" race. Usually one or both of the days will be challenging weather conditions (wind over 15 kts. Upwind or blast reach in choppy water). Off-water logistics aren't too bad, since you can stay in same hotel the whole weekend

Keys 100 (former Hogsbreath) - Similar to Steeplechase, but logistics are more difficult

Hiram's Haul - Melbourne - Best "Taste of Distance" race. Short distance, logistics aren't too difficult. Protected water, which allows those in moderate shape to race in all but disastrous weather conditions.

RTI - Pensacola - Perhaps best "how long can I sit in this dang drysuit" test. Logistics are easy (one stop), but in all but the best years, you can expect to be on your boat more than 12 hours (in some cases closer to 24 hours).

Space Coast 45 - Melbourne - I think this is now held in protected water, which would make it a good race similar to Hiram's Haul Distance is slightly longer, too.

Everglades Challenge - west coast FL. Probably the most logistically equivalent to T-500. Never competed in it, but anecdotal evidence indicates the conditions may be slightly less ferocious than the T-500 on a bad week.

Any others I'm missing?

If you're into freezing your boy parts off you should look into the distance race on Lake of the Woods. Week long distance race in sub 50*F water.

http://www.lowisa.org/history/43/NORMainRegattaLOWISA43.pdf

or Leech Lake regatta, its about 30 miles.
http://www.leech-lake.com/events_regatta.php

If it's not a rude question how much did it cost to do the race?
regards

Jeff, a very fair and excellent question. I bought my boat for 6500 four years ago (cheap). I have probably sunk 10k into it for new sails, tons of extra parts, and oops I broke my mast last year without insurance (Don't worry Chuck, I had liability). This year I only spent about 200 or less on parts during the race, 500 for entry and 3300 for food, drink, gas, hotels, and whatever for a family of four. This did not include my partners expenses for him and his family. So minimum for you, a partner, and 1 or two crew who all shared a room and 1 car and minimum breakage would be 3-4k. Insurance was 400 for 10000 with replacement value. i.e. they won't pro-rate, but will give you what it costs to replace the part. This is assuming elliot pattison replaces my spin, else add another grand or an insurance claim.

I would strongly recommend this race to anyone. Its a lot of fun. Logistics are easy. You are never more than a mile from shore, so there is little danger. Plus, its a nice vacation in the woods.

Lake of the woods is not 50 degree water. Its about 75 degrees. We never needed anything but shorts and T-shirts when I did it.

Logistics are easy because although the course may be about 50 miles each day, the start and finish of each day are not far apart. A handful of us beach cats shared a houseboat that met us at the finish of each race.

The race is open to all sailboats: dinghies, big keel boats, A-Scows, Cbeach cats, and F-boats. If you get in trouble on your beach cat, a slower boat will a little behind you.

Yeah, But didn't all four of you sleep in the back of a Datsun pick-up?